Is Cam Newton on a HOF pace?

[JAF-N72EX]

Forget about stats and accolades. That's not even going to be his biggest problem getting inducted. 

The fact that the majority of his career is spent playing in the same era as Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, Ben, Ryan, Russell is going to be his biggest issue. 

Unless he somehow turns into Superman on the field (pun inteded) and starts lighting it up every year......the chances of him getting in are already very slim.

Edited September 4, 2018 by JustAnotherFan

[MSURacerDT55]

6 minutes ago, Danger said:

I won't deny the season Cam had in 2015, if half of his career so far was like that then I'd not scoff so much at the thought, but he's not really come close to that in any other season.

You can say the same about Marino's 84 season, also they almost exclusively passed the ball, Cam had an elite run game that took away from his passing stats

[Danger]

Let me put it this way. Being a hall of fame talent, doesn't make you a hall of famer.

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Forget about stats and accolades. That's not even going to be his biggest problem getting inducted. 

The fact that the majority of his career is spent playing in the same era as Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, Ben, Ryan, Russell is going to be his biggest issue. 

Unless he somehow turns into Superman on the field (pun inteded) and starts lighting it every year......the chances of him getting in are already very slim.

  The only two that should poly to Cam is Ryan and Wilson. Both of whom he is comparable to. All others were in the league 7 years before him. Cam’s career is still in its first half. 

[JAF-N72EX]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

  The only two that should poly to Cam is Ryan and Wilson. Both of whom he is comparable to. All others were in the league 7 years before him. Cam’s career is still in its first half. 

None of the voters are gonna take that into consideration when he has already spent atleast 8 years of his career with them -- that's if they even remember this. It's not as if he is only in 3rd or 4th year.

Players are gauged by their peers and 8+ are enough years to compare them. 

[Toomers]

12 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

None of the voters are gonna take that into consideration when he has already spent atleast 8 years of his career with them -- that's if they even remember this. It's not as if he is only in 3rd or 4th year.

Players are gauged by their peers and 8+ are enough years to compare them. 

And this is an on pace question. But you are comparing him to players with twice as much playing time to evaluate. Do you even bring up Matt Ryan’s name after his 7th season? How about Brees? Ben without rings? 

  Marino, Montana, Kelly, Elway, Moon, Aikmen, Young, and Farve all played at the same time. Didn’t hurt their chances. 

[JAF-N72EX]

19 minutes ago, Toomers said:

And this is an on pace question. But you are comparing him to players with twice as much playing time to evaluate. Do you even bring up Matt Ryan’s name after his 7th season? How about Brees? Ben without rings? 

  Marino, Montana, Kelly, Elway, Moon, Aikmen, Young, and Farve all played at the same time. Didn’t hurt their chances. 

Yes, you do bring them up. The same way they were brought up when Favre and Peyton retired. They didn't care Farve had started his career a few years before Peyton and ~10 years before Brady, Brees and Ben. They cared about the fact that he played in the same era as they did and therefore those are who he was compared too. 

Just like they didn't care that Peyton started 6-7 years earlier than Brady and 8 years earlier than Ben and Brees. Just like they're not going to care that ROdgers started his career ~8 later than Brady.

Again, players are judged based on their performances, accomplishments, storylines, memorable moments are then compared to their contemporaries who played in the same era. Regardless of how many years they play. Otherwise, they would be penalizing ironmen players like Bettis, Brady and Favre just because they could play longer than most.  

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

The fact that the majority of his career is spent playing in the same era as Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers, Ben, Ryan, Russell is going to be his biggest issue. 

Eh.. I’m a Rivers fan, but I don’t think his career since Cam’s arrival has been that much, if at all, better than Cam’s unless you’re strictly looking at QB rating.  Both have struggled with consistency, either because of themselves or the team around them, but Cam has far more big game moments than Rivers in the same time span.

[Toomers]

22 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Yes, you do bring them up. The same way they were brought up when Favre and Peyton retired. They didn't care Farve had started his career a few years before Peyton and ~10 years before Brady, Brees and Ben. They cared about the fact that he played in the same era as they did and therefore those are who he was compared too. 

Just like they didn't care that Peyton started 6-7 years earlier than Brady and 8 years earlier than Ben and Brees. Just like they're not going to care that ROdgers started his career ~8 later than Brady.

Again, players are judged based on their performances, accomplishments, storylines, memorable moments are then compared to their contemporaries who played in the same era. Regardless of how many years they play. Otherwise, they would be penalizing ironmen players like Bettis, Brady and Favre just because they could play longer than most.  

Let’s see. Manning started 2 years before Brady, 3 before Brees. 6 before Ben. You are using some convenient math there. 

[JAF-N72EX]

22 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Let’s see. Manning started 2 years before Brady, 3 before Brees. 6 before Ben. You are using some convenient math there. 

It's not convenient math. More like hazy memory. For some reason I also think Peyton was drafted in '96 and I always associate Brees with the Saints after his injury. But my point still stands.

23 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

Eh.. I’m a Rivers fan, but I don’t think his career since Cam’s arrival has been that much, if at all, better than Cam’s unless you’re strictly looking at QB rating.  Both have struggled with consistency, either because of themselves or the team around them, but Cam has far more big game moments than Rivers in the same time span.

Without getting too deep into it, that might be true. But the coaching staff and defenses that SD has had have been atrocious throughout his career compared to Carolina who seem to be a top-10 every year. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by JustAnotherFan

[TheVillain112]

If you think Andy Dalton is on a HOF pace, then yes.

I like Cam but he's not on a HOF pace, but he has the potentially to get there...

[Toomers]

10 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

If you think Andy Dalton is on a HOF pace, then yes.

I like Cam but he's not on a HOF pace, but he has the potentially to get there...

Call me when Dalton wins a playoff game or finishes anywhere near an MVP. Not even in the same ballpark. 

[Toomers]

13 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

It's not convenient math. More like hazy memory. For some reason I also think Peyton was drafted in '96 and I always associate Brees with the Saints after his injury. But my point still stands.

Without getting too deep into it, that might be true. But the coaching staff and defenses that SD has had have been atrocious throughout his career compared to Carolina who seem to be a top-10 every year. 

The only point you made was that you have early onset Alzheimer’s. Everything to said was false. Horribly. 

And Rivers gets excuses for coaching when Cam has had Mike Shula as an OC for the majority of his career. What did Mike McCoy do prior to SD? Hmmm....

[TheVillain112]

5 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Call me when Dalton wins a playoff game or finishes anywhere near an MVP. Not even in the same ballpark. 

Player A: 58.5(Comp %) 25,074(Passing Yards) 7.3(YPA) 158(Passing TDs)    94(INTs)
Player B: 62.3(Comp %) 25,534(Passing Yards) 7.2(YPA) 167(Passing TDs)    93(INTs)

Not saying at all that Dalton is comparable but when looking at "numbers" which the HOF voters will do, this is what they'll see.  A guy whose passing stats weren't greater than Dalton who very clearly is not a HOF candidate.  'Made it to the SB' isn't going to get him there either.  Right now he's not a HOF QB or on pace to be one.  He would need to do something he hasn't done yet to get there which is A.) Win a SB B.) Improve his passing numbers...

[Toomers]

12 minutes ago, TheVillain112 said:

Player A: 58.5(Comp %) 25,074(Passing Yards) 7.3(YPA) 158(Passing TDs)    94(INTs)
Player B: 62.3(Comp %) 25,534(Passing Yards) 7.2(YPA) 167(Passing TDs)    93(INTs)

Not saying at all that Dalton is comparable but when looking at "numbers" which the HOF voters will do, this is what they'll see.  A guy whose passing stats weren't greater than Dalton who very clearly is not a HOF candidate.  'Made it to the SB' isn't going to get him there either.  Right now he's not a HOF QB or on pace to be one.  He would need to do something he hasn't done yet to get there which is A.) Win a SB B.) Improve his passing numbers...

Now. Make Dalton the greatest running QB of all time. And give him an MVP. And playoff success. They see that along with stats.