Is Cam Newton on a HOF pace?

[Danger]

QBs I would without a doubt take over Newton

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
Wilson
Roethlisberger
Ryan
Stafford
Rivers

Others I think that could very likely put themselves in that category above Newton IF they prove it this season

Goff
Luck
Wentz
 

[Danger]

Even in his first three seasons, he wasn't all that much better when he had Steve Smith Sr (Hall of famer) along with Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams, 2 1000 yard rushers. Now if you want to write off his first season due to learning, I'll give you that one.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Danger

[James]

2 minutes ago, Danger said:

Even in his first three seasons, he wasn't all that much better when he had Steve Smith Sr (Hall of famer) along with Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams, 2 1000 yard rushers. Now if you want to write off his first season due to learning, I'll give you that one.

His two highest completion % and passing yardage seasons were in those first three. His first year should pretty much be thrown out though, that was the season after the lockout where pretty much everyone threw for 4,000 yards.

[iknowcool]

9 minutes ago, Danger said:

Even in his first three seasons, he wasn't all that much better when he had Steve Smith Sr (Hall of famer) along with Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams, 2 1000 yard rushers. Now if you want to write off his first season due to learning, I'll give you that one.

If we were to exclude Newton's 2015 season, Newton's 3 best seasons in regards to his QB rating all come in the first 3 seasons of his career.  And he posted his best CMP% in 2013.  His 3 best YAs come in the first 3 seasons too (again, excluding 2015), with a damn impressive 7.8 and 8.0 in '11 and '12 (which happened to be the seasons he played in the most structured offense with Chud as OC).  So not entirely true he wasn't all that much better statistically.  He was.

It may seem like I'm exaggerating when I talk about Shula's scheme, but it really was that bad.  It felt like at times our passing offense was stuck in the 1970s.  While some of it was Cam, who I agree has a gunslinger mentality and isn't the most accurate QB, Shula would continually call plays where every receiver is sent 10 yards down the field.  It was a low-percentage passing offense. 

Cam isn't Brees, but he isn't any less accurate than say Eli Manning.  He's capable of hovering around 62-63% (which greatly impacts the QB Rating) with an offensive coordinator who knows what they are doing; it's why you saw Eli jump from 57 to 63.  He didn't just magically become more accurate.

Edited September 6, 2018 by iknowcool

[MSURacerDT55]

11 minutes ago, Danger said:

Even in his first three seasons, he wasn't all that much better when he had Steve Smith Sr (Hall of famer) along with Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams, 2 1000 yard rushers. Now if you want to write off his first season due to learning, I'll give you that one.

And after, he lost Smith Sr and DeAngelo Williams and carried a team with Johnathan Stewart who didn't even crack 1000 yards,had a receiving corp of Philly Brown, Ted Ginn Jr, Cottery,and Devin Freaking Funchess and had a terrible pass blocking OL on his way to a 15-1 record and MVP. Its hilarious how people like to selectively pick and choose scenarios that support their argument. His 2015 season is probably one of the greatest individual seasons for the circumstances he had the league has ever seen. Also, if he had even an average OL, he could have a SB under his belt as well. 

I'm not even a Cam Newton fan but I recognize the situation he had/has and what he's done with what he had to work with, apparently others choose to stick their head in the sand or lazily manipulate numbers to make him look less than what he is. 

I surely hope you guys are as outspoken/critical of other guys as you guys are of Newton

[Synopsis]

4 hours ago, Danger said:

He had 1 good HALF season.

2nd half of 2015 - Passer Rating = 117.1
The entire rest of his career Passer Rating = 82.8

That's below average outside of a half season.

If you analyze the games and not just glance at stats you'll see that early in the season his wide receivers dropped a good number of td passes and caused some interceptions. This is what happens when a #4 wr is your main guy (Ted Ginn). Stats can be misleading. Cam was an MVP candidate during those first 8 games.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/newton-and-kaepernick-are-basically-the-same-player-except-for-the-record-1446593659?mod=e2tw

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Synopsis

[BaratheonFollower]

Nope. Any star player these days is HOF worthy according to their fans.

To me, if you were never top 2-3 at your position for a 3-4 year stretch minimum, or at least in the conversation for it, you don't belong. 

 

Who in their right mind would have picked Cam over Manning (pre-injury), Brady, Brees or Rodgers in the past decade? Heck, even Big ben and Rivers deserve to be in the conversation before Newton. 

 

[Bobikus]

Nah.  As talented as he is, and as poor as the offensive talent around him has been, the numbers just aren't there.

[celestial]

Newton does have a league MVP. If he wins 2 Superbowls, or wins another MVP and wins 1 Superbowl he has a good argument for the HOF. All these haters will have to deal with Cam's dominance. That said, it's unlikely he achieves this way.

Edited September 7, 2018 by celestial

[VanS]

On 9/4/2018 at 8:33 AM, Danger said:

This is a joke, right?

If Philips Rivers is considered a Hall of Famer, then why wouldn't Cam Newton?

Cam has an MVP, been to the Super Bowl, and puts up stats every year.

He's definitely on a Hall of Fame pace if a guy like Philip Rivers is considered a Hall of Famer 

[Danger]

2 minutes ago, VanS said:

If Philips Rivers is considered a Hall of Famer, then why wouldn't Cam Newton?

Most people don't consider Rivers a Hall of Famer, and I certainly don't.

Hall of Famers in recent and current years.

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Eli Manning (unfortunately)

[VanS]

1 minute ago, Danger said:

Most people don't consider Rivers a Hall of Famer, and I certainly don't.

Hall of Famers in recent and current years.

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Eli Manning (unfortunately)

I actually agree with you on this, though I would take Eli off (and add Big Ben).  I don't care that Eli won 2 Super Bowls.  He's not been consistent enough to be a Hall of Famer.

I was simply arguing that if you believe Philip Rivers is a Hall of Famer then so is Cam Newton.  With that said, I agree with you that neither are true Hall of Fame caliber QBs.

 

[Danger]

2 minutes ago, VanS said:

I actually agree with you on this, though I would take Eli off (and add Big Ben).  I don't care that Eli won 2 Super Bowls.  He's not been consistent enough to be a Hall of Famer.

I forgot about Ben he very well make it as well. But with Eli being in New York, and the criteria of those voting, I think he will make it in, even if he doesn't necessarily deserve to be.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

It's 2018, and we're still referencing passer rating when talking about quarterback play

Edited September 8, 2018 by PapaShogun

[Zithers2]

Cam should universally be regarded as a future Hall of Famer.

Unfortunately he got stuck with Mike Shula and a bunch of nobodies outside of Olsen helping him out. He's led the team in rushing twice and hasn't had an above average OL since 2013. Hasn't had a true #1 wideout since 2013 (arguably 2012 since Smitty looked mortal that season). We aren't counting Kelvin Benjamin because it turns out we are way better without his lard slowing us down (something like 18-22-1 when he plays and 23-5 when he isn't).

Maybe Norv Turner (yeah, I know) can make things better this season. Especially since the offense is trying to inject speed into it (McCaffrey, Moore, Samuel all being drafted lately) can help out. His 2015 is one of the NFL's great seasons. We could really benefit by getting a forward-thinking offensive mind to mix and match the various skillsets that our personnel provides between the aforementioned three, Devin Funchess, Greg Olsen, Ian Thomas, Alex Armah, CJ Anderson, Torrey Smith, Damiere Byrd, etc.

Also, imagine thinking Matt Stafford is better than Cam. Dude can't even beat teams with winning records. Or even Matt Ryan, who looks extremely human without Kyle Shanahan. And lost 38-3 in Atlanta against the Panthers in a win-and-in situation.