Is Cam Newton on a HOF pace?

[LaserFocus]

On 9/8/2018 at 12:01 AM, Zithers2 said:

Cam should universally be regarded as a future Hall of Famer.

Unfortunately he got stuck with Mike Shula and a bunch of nobodies outside of Olsen helping him out. He's led the team in rushing twice and hasn't had an above average OL since 2013. Hasn't had a true #1 wideout since 2013 (arguably 2012 since Smitty looked mortal that season). We aren't counting Kelvin Benjamin because it turns out we are way better without his lard slowing us down (something like 18-22-1 when he plays and 23-5 when he isn't).

Maybe Norv Turner (yeah, I know) can make things better this season. Especially since the offense is trying to inject speed into it (McCaffrey, Moore, Samuel all being drafted lately) can help out. His 2015 is one of the NFL's great seasons. We could really benefit by getting a forward-thinking offensive mind to mix and match the various skillsets that our personnel provides between the aforementioned three, Devin Funchess, Greg Olsen, Ian Thomas, Alex Armah, CJ Anderson, Torrey Smith, Damiere Byrd, etc.

Also, imagine thinking Matt Stafford is better than Cam. Dude can't even beat teams with winning records. Or even Matt Ryan, who looks extremely human without Kyle Shanahan. And lost 38-3 in Atlanta against the Panthers in a win-and-in situation.

Newton has a shot, but has a long way to go. He's 29 already, and had a terrible SB against Denver when he could have really helped himself. The visual of Newton being reluctant to dive on a live football resonates today. And for fans bringing up Dan Marino versus the 1984 Niners, that's not a valid comparison. The 2015 Broncos weren't a complete, dominant football team.

Assuming he doesn't have a chance to reach another SB, Newton has plenty of work on the bulk stats end of things, especially TDs. He's also taken a beating, and I can easily see him retiring early to pursue other interests.

[lancerman]

On 9/4/2018 at 7:54 AM, MSURacerDT55 said:

Fair, But do they both have SB appearances? and an MVP? Your point is fair, but also the comparison to Marino and both bodies of work is pretty fair IMO.

Dan Marino has an MVP off what is considered probably the best QB year before the 2004 rule changes. 7 All Pros (Cam has 1), 9 Pro Bowls (Cam has 3), led the league in passing yards 5 times (Cam never did), led the league in passing TD's 3 times (Cam never has), led the league in passer rating once (Cam never did). Has broke 4000 passing yards 6 times, Cam in a far more stat inflated era only did that once. Broke 40 TD's twice (a feat only achieved 12 times), Cam never did. Was an OPOY. 

Cam Newton is not Dan freakin Marino. The rules needed to change for people to pass Marino. Cam's not even going to finish amongst the top 5 statistically against merely the QB's who played when his career was active.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

11 hours ago, lancerman said:

Dan Marino has an MVP off what is considered probably the best QB year before the 2004 rule changes. 7 All Pros (Cam has 1), 9 Pro Bowls (Cam has 3), led the league in passing yards 5 times (Cam never did), led the league in passing TD's 3 times (Cam never has), led the league in passer rating once (Cam never did). Has broke 4000 passing yards 6 times, Cam in a far more stat inflated era only did that once. Broke 40 TD's twice (a feat only achieved 12 times), Cam never did. Was an OPOY. 

Cam Newton is not Dan freakin Marino. The rules needed to change for people to pass Marino. Cam's not even going to finish amongst the top 5 statistically against merely the QB's who played when his career was active.

Cam did break 40 touchdowns. Had 35 passing in 2015 along with 10 rushing.

Edited September 10, 2018 by PapaShogun

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, PapaShogun said:

Cam did break 40 touchdowns. Had 35 passing in 2015 along with 10 rushing.

Jesus Christ. No it’s not the same, go away. He’s a QB not a running back. And no he’s not Dan Marino 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

11 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Jesus Christ. No it’s not the same, go away. He’s a QB not a running back. And no he’s not Dan Marino 

I didn't say he was Dan Marino. But just because all of his total touchdowns weren't passing touchdowns, doesn't mean the ones he got as a rusher are invalid. That's stupid. That's like saying everything Marshall Faulk did as a receiver is irrelevant because he's a running back. 45 touchdowns is 45 touchdowns. Taking that away from Cam because he's not playing the position in the way you believe is appropriate is pretty ridiculous. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by PapaShogun

[iknowcool]

36 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Jesus Christ. No it’s not the same, go away. He’s a QB not a running back. And no he’s not Dan Marino 

So a rushing TD isn’t the same value as a passing TD? 

Come on.  Why do some of you keep making this argument?  What the heck is the difference between Cam running for a 5 yard TD and passing for a 5 yard TD?  Nothing other than to support your comfirmation bias.  A touchdown is a touchdown.  Newton scored 50 including the postseason.  Acting like he didn’t is disingenuous and makes you look petty. 

By your logic LDT doesn’t hold the single season TD record because he’s not a wide receiver.  I guess Faulk didn’t break the record for YFS (at the time) either.  He’s not a wide receiver so his receiving yards don’t count.

And obviously Cam isn’t anywhere near as good as Marino.  That doesn’t mean we should be eliminating a large portion of his stats because he... isn’t a RB?  Like it makes no sense to.  Yards are yards, TDs are TDs.  Do you think the Patriots care if Brady sneaks it in for a TD instead of passing it?  Do all those first downs Brady has gotten via the sneak not count because he isn’t a RB?

Edited September 10, 2018 by iknowcool
j

[Bobikus]

32 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Jesus Christ. No it’s not the same, go away. He’s a QB not a running back. And no he’s not Dan Marino 

A TD is a TD is a TD.

[MSURacerDT55]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

Jesus Christ. No it’s not the same, go away. He’s a QB not a running back. And no he’s not Dan Marino 

Oh ,so the TDs he scores on the ground really don't count? That's news to me, I think the NFL needs to go back and adjust the scores then. Any more declarations?

Edited September 10, 2018 by MSURacerDT55

[lancerman]

2 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Oh ,so the TDs he scores on the ground really don't count? That's news to me, I think the NFL needs to go back and adjust the scores then. Any more declarations?

If you are comparing him to one of the greatest pure passers in history who in a harder era was a better volume passer than Cam ever was. Then yeah it matters. 

This goes for the rest of you too. Shame on you all really

[MSURacerDT55]

2 minutes ago, lancerman said:

If you are comparing him to one of the greatest pure passers in history who in a harder era was a better volume passer than Cam ever was. Then yeah it matters. 

This goes for the rest of you too. Shame on you all really

I actually agree that is was a harder era to pass because you could literally mug a WR and get away with it, but conversely, Marino had one of the best WR duos in league history. All Cam had was a 33 year old Steve Smith Sr, and had his best seasons with Ted Ginn Jr, Philly Brown, and Jerricho Cottery, the shame is this accomplishment isn't being recognized

[Toomers]

  

10 minutes ago, lancerman said:

If you are comparing him to one of the greatest pure passers in history who in a harder era was a better volume passer than Cam ever was. Then yeah it matters. 

This goes for the rest of you too. Shame on you all really

  No one was comparing them player to player. I brought it up to dispute a certain argument, stats wise, against Cam. Nothing more. 

  Has anyone even said he was? The only debates are about the same double-standards” that have been used against Cam since day one. Things like Cam being the best running QB ever should be dismissed....LOL. How about we ask NFL DCs if it matters? 

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

If you are comparing him to one of the greatest pure passers in history who in a harder era was a better volume passer than Cam ever was. Then yeah it matters. 

This goes for the rest of you too. Shame on you all really

Dude, it doesn’t matter who you are comparing him.  Saying Cam didn’t score 40 TDs is a straight up lie.  

 Marino being better than Cam doesn’t mean Cam didn’t score 40+ (50 total) in a season.

If your reasoning for not giving Cam credit for all his TDs is because Marino played in a tougher era, then should we no longer say Brady threw 50 TDs in 2007?

Edited September 10, 2018 by iknowcool

[lancerman]

2 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

Dude, it doesn’t matter who you are comparing him.  Saying Cam didn’t score 40 TDs is a straight up lie.  And you’re shaming us for that?

Come on.  You’re a smart poster.  You know it’s disingenuous.  Marino being better than Cam doesn’t mean Cam didn’t score 40+ (50 total) in a season.

If your reasoning for not giving Cam credit for all his TDs is because Marino played in a tougher era, then should we no longer say Brady threw 50 TDs in 2007?

First off don’t call me a liar. My entire post was clearly about passing stats as evidence by the fact that I brought up the difference in era which exclusively effects the pass and not the run. I don’t know what to say if you really needed that spelled out from you. 

Yes if you want to play that game Dan Marino in an era where it was far more difficult to pass broke 40 TD’s  more times than Cam, while exclusively passing while Cam needs a combination of passing (in an easier passing era) and rushing TD’s to achieve the same feat less times than Dan. 

 

My reasoning was that that I was pretty clearly only discussing passing. Dan Marino is 100 times the passer Cam is 

[DLF54927]

On 9/8/2018 at 12:01 AM, Zithers2 said:

Also, imagine thinking Matt Stafford is better than Cam. Dude can't even beat teams with winning records. 

Why you got be so mean?

And it's "teams that finish with winning records", FYI.

[iknowcool]

25 minutes ago, lancerman said:

First off don’t call me a liar. My entire post was clearly about passing stats as evidence by the fact that I brought up the difference in era which exclusively effects the pass and not the run. I don’t know what to say if you really needed that spelled out from you. 

Yes if you want to play that game Dan Marino in an era where it was far more difficult to pass broke 40 TD’s  more times than Cam, while exclusively passing while Cam needs a combination of passing (in an easier passing era) and rushing TD’s to achieve the same feat less times than Dan. 

 

My reasoning was that that I was pretty clearly only discussing passing. Dan Marino is 100 times the passer Cam is 

No, you’re just backtracking now.  You didn’t say in response “I’m only talking about passing stats” when you were called out, you simply said rushing TDs and passing TDs aren’t the same.  

I’m not calling you a liar, but saying Cam hasn’t scored 40 TDs in a season is a Iie.  Is it not a lie?  Did Cam not scored 45 regular season TDs?

And again you are trying to take away from Cam by saying he needs to run and pass.  Why does it matter?  A rushing TD = a passing TD in value.  Why does it matter if he needs to run and pass to get 40 TDs? 

Again it’s like if I said Faulk never had 2000 yards in a season.  It’s a misleading statement.  And quite frankly it makes no sense at all to eliminate half of a players production.  Literally none.  

Edited September 10, 2018 by iknowcool