AFlaccoSeagulls Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: I believe that's the plan. I do wonder if D&D can pull it off. History says they go for the spectacle. I do think the show is right to go back to what started it all - the battle for the Kingdom. I think the reason why there were so few major casualties in the NK attack was because they're saving it for the next 3 eps - and yes, to pull a "gotcha" on everyone who figured the Winterfell battle was going to wipe out 50+ percent of the characters. That last part is convenient writing, plot armor critiques are more than fair. But I don't think it's a sign they're all safe, though. As you said, if the NK had wiped out most of the main characters, wouldn't be much of a story left. I mean there's probably going to be another major battle - it's even hinted at in the preview for E4, but nowhere near this level and there's really no army to fight for Dany/Jon at this point - so unless they conjure up an army out of nowhere it's going to be backstabbing and character-driven depth that lead us to the finale, with some 1v1 showdowns sprinkled in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: As you said, if the NK had wiped out most of the main characters, wouldn't be much of a story left. I disagree with that. A lot of characters have already reached the end of their story and don't have much to offer. Brienne was knighted and got the acceptance/approval she wanted from Jaime. Cersei isn't her real concern. Jon was always only concerned with the war against the Others, and actively does not care about the Iron Throne. Same with Bran, Sam, the wildlings, etc. Ser Davos, Varys, Grey Worm, etc. are all just supporter's to Dany and aren't of any real consequence to the KL story. The only people that have real stories tied to Cersei are Dany, the Stark sisters and the Lanister brothers. Everyone else could have died with minimum impact on the rest of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I mean there's probably going to be another major battle - it's even hinted at in the preview for E4, but nowhere near this level and there's really no army to fight for Dany/Jon at this point - so unless they conjure up an army out of nowhere it's going to be backstabbing and character-driven depth that lead us to the finale, with some 1v1 showdowns sprinkled in. Well Cersei has a 20K army to join what's left of her Lannister contingent with the Golden Company. And at least by book canon, they are on par with the Unsullied - the finest army money can buy. The 2 dragons are a great equalizer, but we could easily see a 5:1 or 10:1 numerical advantage after what the NK army did at Winterfell. Keep that in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: I mean there's probably going to be another major battle - it's even hinted at in the preview for E4, but nowhere near this level and there's really no army to fight for Dany/Jon at this point - so unless they conjure up an army out of nowhere it's going to be backstabbing and character-driven depth that lead us to the finale, with some 1v1 showdowns sprinkled in. With Jon and Dany in charge, we could see them still manage to lose to Cersei. There is an army still left. Remember the field of fire, where all the remaining soldiers (quite a lot of them) all bent the knee to Dany? They're all Sam's bannermen now, and even if he doesn't like Dany, he'll follow Jon. Then there's who's left in the Riverlands, and with the Freys wiped out, that should be Edmure's guys at this point. Then there's the Glovers, who will come crawling back, and I imagine, a few soldiers left in the Vale. I don't recall them sending their entire force to Winterfell, and Yohn Royce and Robin will do what Sansa says. And there's two dragons, along with two superpowered Starks. Actually, Cersei at this point seems to only have the Golden Company and the Iron Fleet. Literally everyone else is against her. That's why they planted the seeds of Dany clashing with Sam, Sansa, and Jon. If they're still united, Cersei doesn't stand a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 Just now, Heimdallr said: I disagree with that. A lot of characters have already reached the end of their story and don't have much to offer. Brienne was knighted and got the acceptance/approval she wanted from Jaime. Cersei isn't her real concern. Jon was always only concerned with the war against the Others, and actively does not care about the Iron Throne. Same with Bran, Sam, the wildlings, etc. Ser Davos, Varys, Grey Worm, etc. are all just supporter's to Dany and aren't of any real consequence to the KL story. The only people that have real stories tied to Cersei are Dany, the Stark sisters and the Lanister brothers. Everyone else could have died with minimum impact on the rest of the story. Sure, but the rest of my post alludes to what you are referring to - I think the writers are simply saving up the demise of players like Brienne/Grey Worm for the pathos/tragedy for Ep4-6. It's convenient writing, part of what I was referring to with D&D going for spectacle. I think the NK attack was going to have some element of fake-out on the scope of deaths because it was ep3. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Well Cersei has a 20K army to join what's left of her Lannister contingent with the Golden Company. And at least by book canon, they are on par with the Unsullied - the finest army money can buy. The 2 dragons are a great equalizer, but we could easily see a 5:1 or 10:1 numerical advantage after what the NK army did at Winterfell. Keep that in mind. Unsullied are gone - Greyworm is all that's left IIRC. Guess we'll find out in the next episode how many people are left though, but yeah the 2 dragons are the equalizer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 The only person of any importance on Cersei's side is Qyburn. He might have some sort of magic that can counter the dragons. Otherwise, the show has already established that dragons are unstoppable by conventional armies and weapons. They've also established that Arya would have zero difficulty walking in and assassinating Cersei, and that Bran is basically a god. It'll be interesting to see what sort of twists they pull to make the battle relevant, because even with just the dragons or Arya, Cersei could have 10 million soldiers and it wouldn't matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Unsullied are gone - Greyworm is all that's left IIRC. Guess we'll find out in the next episode how many people are left though, but yeah the 2 dragons are the equalizer. Yeah, that's my point - I think 80-90 percent of the Winterfell camp is toast. So the Lannisters will have a huge #'s advantage, and with a skilled army. The Dragons will be a huge equalizer, but it does set up for an epic battle in terms of casualties. I think that's the endgame D&D are shooting for spectacle-wise - not necessarily just graphically / effects wise, but shock / tragedy wise. Edited April 30, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywindO2 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 If only Cersei had gotten her elephants... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PARROTHEAD Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Well Cersei has a 20K army to join what's left of her Lannister contingent with the Golden Company. And at least by book canon, they are on par with the Unsullied - the finest army money can buy. The 2 dragons are a great equalizer, but we could easily see a 5:1 or 10:1 numerical advantage after what the NK army did at Winterfell. Keep that in mind. Only the Knights Of The Vale came north. Theres 20k+ infantry that can be rounded up there. I think it would be cool since theres time with 3 episodes left for Brienne to go home for support and bring Tarth with 500-1000 guys. Maybe find out her father had passed while there and shes Lord. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Heimdallr said: The only person of any importance on Cersei's side is Qyburn. He might have some sort of magic that can counter the dragons. Otherwise, the show has already established that dragons are unstoppable by conventional armies and weapons. They've also established that Arya would have zero difficulty walking in and assassinating Cersei, and that Bran is basically a god. It'll be interesting to see what sort of twists they pull to make the battle relevant. I do recall that Cersei invested in dragon killing weapons. I suspect with those towers, that will be explored further. And yes, Qyburn. Pretty much guarantee a Mountain/Hound battle (+/- Arya) is happening. Euron's fleet will pose a naval advantage, wonder if we see Davos/Tyrion team up there - a fitting result of the 2 main opponents in the Battle of the Blackwater. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, PARROTHEAD said: Only the Knights Of The Vale came north. Theres 20k+ infantry that can be rounded up there. I think it would be cool since theres time with 3 episodes left for Brienne to go home for support and bring Tarth with 500-1000 guys. Maybe find out her father had passed while there and shes Lord. I do think that's why they wrote in the division in the North with Jon vs. Dany as the leader. To keep all factions from uniting again in the North so the numerical advantage to the Lannisters by a significant margin. Either way, I'm guessing a numbers vs. dragons battle. Guess we'll find out the next 3 weeks lol. Edited April 30, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, Heimdallr said: This happened before the Age of Heroes, which means he predates any of the houses or recorded history by probably 2000 years. Unless they do some weird time travel nonsense, we won't know, and it probably doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdallr Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: Euron's fleet will pose a naval advantage, wonder if we see Davos/Tyrion team up there - a fitting result of the 2 main opponents in the Battle of the Blackwater. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the Iron Fleet. The only other person with boats is Yara (who went to reclaim the Iron Islands with a handful of soldiers) but she wouldn't have had time to build an entire fleet. The only purpose I can see for the Iron Fleet was to transport the Golden Company across the sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, Heimdallr said: It'll be interesting to see what they do with the Iron Fleet. The only other person with boats is Yara (who went to reclaim the Iron Islands with a handful of soldiers) but she wouldn't have had time to build an entire fleet. The only purpose I can see for the Iron Fleet was to transport the Golden Company across the sea. Well Euron built 1,000 ships in like a day last season, so don't see why Yara couldn't do the same in a week. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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