Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[thrILL!]

1 hour ago, Calvert28 said:

There is a difference between murdering some Dotharki Warlords, slave Masters who feed children to animals for their amusement, and people who are just average citizens who don't delve in slavery, make war, or whjo have done anything to Dany.

Dany says the people love Jon. How is it the people of Kings Landing love Jon? They don't even know Jon and that's her justification by the writers? Outside of the North none even knows who he is and she just leveled the most powerful army in Westeros and got her revenge and sent a message burning down the RedKeep.

"But she's had urges, she had these urges!"- Yea and she's given into those urges, she didn't burn Mereen to the ground, she crucified 163 people in retalation and to make a point. Where were her advisors again? Where was Missendai? Jorah, Grey Worm? None of them talked her out of that. Not even Ser Barristan. Well she gave into her urges and did what she wanted to do.

It was the same thing with the siege of Mereen. 

Same especially in Vaes Dothrak. These people abandoned her, tried to kill her, left her for dead, or tried to take her back to VD to become a priestess. She didn't burn their entire army to the ground, she didn't burn the citizens and she already lost Jorah again as well as Ser Barristan.

When she lost Ser Barristan, she didn't have the council in her ears and she didn't burn all the Masters in retaliation. She burned one alive in a show of force. Tactful.

That was tactful, and regardless she has always been tactful with her urges. Even when she has lost people she has loved and respected. There was still a chance to become more popular then Jon after what she just did and she completely ignored it for a urge that even in her most dire situations where everyone abandoned her she didn't give into.

There are no tiers to murder. Murder is murder.  Neither is excusable.  Neither is justifiable.  

Where did anyone say that the ppl in King’s landing love Jon Stark?   They would have loved both Jon and Dany for freeing them but instead psycho girl finally snapped.  

And speaking of snapping, ppl are capable of it any moment.  I guess some of you wanted her to snap on a smaller level before snapping on the level she just did.  Ppl in real life snap all the time whether it’s bcuz they lost their job, a loved one died or someone broke up with them.  Things that ppl try to suppress until it boils over. It shouldn’t or doesn’t take a specified level of grief or pain before these things happen.  And this was always going to happen; it was just a matter of when.  

Youre right she could’ve completely been just as popular if not more than Jon after freeing KL.  But after Jon rejected her twice, she felt betrayed and we know what betrayal gets in her world.  He was always going to be a threat and even if Sansa hadn’t spilled the beans, she still would’ve been paranoid.  

[seminoles1]

5 hours ago, skywindO2 said:

When is Watchers on the Wall going to get the respect it deserves? 

No idea because it's amazing, but always forgotten.

[Packerraymond]

30 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Yes, it was cruel, but just taking out the Red Keep doesn't show that you'll do anything to take and keep this power. It just shows that she wanted to kill Cersei.

Dany did this to put the true fear of God into every citizen so they won't even think about a rebellion. She has chosen to rule by fear.

Yes, just burning the Red Keep would have been powerful, but choosing to kill citizens was a demonstration. An over the top power move to hammer in her status and show that if you even think about defying her, no one in your family is safe.

She felt backed into a corner and that this was her only option to get what she wanted and what you have said before she has felt for her entire life is her birthright. Burning the Red Keep and killing Cersei would get her the throne, but doing what she did insured (at least in her mind) that no one would try to take it from her.

At the end of season 7 she got an entire opposing army to bend the knee out of fear by killing 2 men. Mass genocide to gain fear isn't believable to me. It does the opposite in fact and establishes a motive for rebellion.

This scene doesn't establish her as wanting to rule with fear. She's pure evil,  probably 500000+ people killed in cold blood. She's worse than Cersei, she's worse than Joffrey, worse than Ramsey, she's the most evil villain on GoT.

What she's done is not any different than the Emperor destroying Alderaan in Star Wars. 

She's ruined any chance of her ruling anyone, no one but the Dothraki and unsullied will ever bend the knee to her.

I just don't buy her character as being able to carry this out. 

[thrILL!]

56 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

How about just have Dany win, with either Jon killing Arya to defend or dying in the process. Cause you know Arya is going after her, she just got added to her new list.

Arya went from total badass to helpless little girl in consecutive battles but her going back to total badass doesn’t scream inconsistency?  Either way, I don’t think it’s likely that Arya gets to kill both the NK and Dany at this point.  Truth be told, I’m scared that Sansa and Arya are gonna kill Jon for siding with Dany.  

[Packerraymond]

6 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

Arya went from total badass to helpless little girl in consecutive battles but her going back to total badass doesn’t scream inconsistency?  Either way, I don’t think it’s likely that Arya gets to kill both the NK and Dany at this point.  Truth be told, I’m scared that Sansa and Arya are gonna kill Jon for siding with Dany.  

Was Arya supposed to develop wings and the ability to breath fire?

[thrILL!]

33 minutes ago, Daniel said:

I'm personally expecting Jon to be super conflicted, tell Dany about his problems with what she does, and get killed for it.  Arya gets her, but too late, they both die.  Grey Worm probably does some soul searching, and realizes he and Dany were both huge dicks, and accepts Tyrion as the new leader.  He brings in Sansa, and they are the new power couple in Westeros, probably forging an alliance with Gendry, Sam/Bronn, and whoever's left in the Vale and the Riverlands to tie up the loose ends.  Semi-united kingdom, no one ruler.

If Tyrion dies, **** this show.

We gotta see Jon vs Grey Worm after last episode   GW was about to go after Jon until he saw him finally start to fight   He noticed the hesitation and there’s going to be a reckoning.

Tyrion was one of my favorite characters for a long time but he’s gotta go.  He’s made so many mistakes lately.  He’s a shadow of his former self. Tbh he hasn’t been the same since he had no choice but to seek out Dany and even then it felt like we didn’t see him as much (whichever season that was). 

Edited May 14, 2019 by thrILL!

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

We gotta see Jon vs Grey Worm after last episode   GW was about to go after Jon until he saw him finally start to fight   He noticed the hesitation and there’s going to be a reckoning.

Tyrion was one of my favorite characters for a long time but he’s gotta go.  He’s made so many mistakes lately.  He’s a shadow of his former self. Tbh he hasn’t been the same since he had no choice but to seek out Dany and even then it felt like we didn’t see him as much (whichever season that was). 

Tyrion has stayed constant in his wish to avoid unnecessary bloodshed.   The one weakness he has displayed is too much faith in his family.  

With them gone I think he’d actually be very effective.   His family and lived ones were his perennial  blind spot (Shae FTW).  The Q is whether he’ll live long enough to prove that.  

[thrILL!]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

Was Arya supposed to develop wings and the ability to breath fire?

Goodness gracious.  It’s like you guys think the only thing that happened in the city was Drogon torching KL. Not only soldiers (and she was wearing armor), civilians were being slaughtered by Dothraki and Unsullied everywhere.  You guys complained about Tyrion walking around the battle unaffected.  The same with Sam at the Battle of Winterfell.  But it’s okay for Arya to be just another helpless person in the streets unable to defend herself.  Never mind all her training and preparation.  She never even drew her sword to be ready in case one of them attacked her.  Imagine watching the movie Heat and Al Pacino never even draws his gun during the huge shootout.  

[Packerraymond]

4 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

Goodness gracious.  It’s like you guys think the only thing that happened in the city was Drogon torching KL. Not only soldiers (and she was wearing armor), civilians were being slaughtered by Dothraki and Unsullied everywhere.  You guys complained about Tyrion walking around the battle unaffected.  The same with Sam at the Battle of Winterfell.  But it’s okay for Arya to be just another helpless person in the streets unable to defend herself.  Never mind all her training and preparation.  She never even drew her sword to be ready in case one of them attacked her.  Imagine watching the movie Heat and Al Pacino never even draws his gun during the huge shootout.  

Did Arya ever come into contact with any members of Cersei or Dany's army? Don't believe so. She was among the common civilians. You're reaching here if you think that Arya being the killer this week would show any kind of inconsistencies.

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

Goodness gracious.  It’s like you guys think the only thing that happened in the city was Drogon torching KL. Not only soldiers (and she was wearing armor), civilians were being slaughtered by Dothraki and Unsullied everywhere.  You guys complained about Tyrion walking around the battle unaffected.  The same with Sam at the Battle of Winterfell.  But it’s okay for Arya to be just another helpless person in the streets unable to defend herself.  Never mind all her training and preparation.  She never even drew her sword to be ready in case one of them attacked her.  Imagine watching the movie Heat and Al Pacino never even draws his gun during the huge shootout.  

TBH if the portrayal of Arya hadn’t been all over the place in 8.3 (deus ex machina in courtyard / scared waif in library / stealth ninja at end with NK) I suspect there would be a lot more latitude given to Arya’s 8.5 portrayal.  But that recent back and forth IMO triggers a lot of negative opinion to her 8.5 powerlessness even if it’s more understandable in KL.  

Edited May 14, 2019 by Broncofan

[LeeEvans]

5 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

TBH if the portrayal of Arya hadn’t been all over the place in 8.3 (deus ex machina in courtyard / scared waif in library / stealth ninja at end with NK) I suspect there would be a lot more latitude given to Arya’s 8.5 portrayal.  But that recent back and forth IMO triggers a lot of negative opinion to her 8.5 powerlessness even if it’s more understandable in KL.  

Bingo.

It's the same with the ballistas and the dragons. Things are only as effective as the writers want them to be for their story. One minute something is all powerful and the next its worthless. That definitely confuses the viewers.

[Broncofan]

6 minutes ago, LeeEvans said:

Bingo.

It's the same with the ballistas and the dragons. Things are only as effective as the writers want them to be for their story. One minute something is all powerful and the next its worthless. That definitely confuses the viewers.

I heard the explanation for the ballistas was that Drogon is the MJ of dragons.  That must make Rhaegar the Christian Hackenberg  and even then....

Edited May 14, 2019 by Broncofan

[thrILL!]

15 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Did Arya ever come into contact with any members of Cersei or Dany's army? Don't believe so. She was among the common civilians. You're reaching here if you think that Arya being the killer this week would show any kind of inconsistencies.

We saw ppl being slaughtered in her vicinity.  Her not being directly assaulted doesn’t change anything.  There is a war going on and she had to go from the center of the city to outside its walls while soldiers were invading and killing everyone indiscriminately.  She is a soldier.  There’s no way she would keep her sword sheathed in the middle of a battle like that.  If you saw this happening around you, wouldn’t you have your weapon drawn?  Apparently not. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by thrILL!

[thrILL!]

16 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

TBH if the portrayal of Arya hadn’t been all over the place in 8.3 (deus ex machina in courtyard / scared waif in library / stealth ninja at end with NK) I suspect there would be a lot more latitude given to Arya’s 8.5 portrayal.  But that recent back and forth IMO triggers a lot of negative opinion to her 8.5 powerlessness even if it’s more understandable in KL.  

I would’ve been completely fine with it had they shown Arya having flashbacks of being in KL when she was younger (her father being killed, etc).  It would explain her freezing up.  

[Calvert28]

1 hour ago, seminoles1 said:

Yes, it was cruel, but just taking out the Red Keep doesn't show that you'll do anything to take and keep this power. It just shows that she wanted to kill Cersei.

She just destroyed the greatest army in Westeros with barely losing any soldiers. The Iron Fleet destroyed, the Golden Company annihilated, and she just burned her birth right (or so she thought) to the ground.  That's making a hell of a statement that she will do near anything to obtain that power. What she just did though has never been done before except in Rhoyane and when the Targs tried doing that in Dorne it didn't end well for the conquerors.

1 hour ago, seminoles1 said:

Dany did this to put the true fear of God into every citizen so they won't even think about a rebellion. She has chosen to rule by fear.

She has always displayed her capability for executing those who don't follow her. But on this scale it was completely unecessary  and yes it was out of character. According to D&D the decision was completely "spontaneous" which means there was no tact to it. Which it was not in Dany's character who has always shown there was a reason for the cruelity and a limit to it. Which is why she had such difficulty in Mereen despite it.

1 hour ago, seminoles1 said:

Yes, just burning the Red Keep would have been powerful, but choosing to kill citizens was a demonstration. An over the top power move to hammer in her status and show that if you even think about defying her, no one in your family is safe.

You're right about that. My argument that this is not Dany. She is not planning ahead when doing this. This entire thing was done out of spite and D&D just confirmed that. I know she has lost alot, but so has everyone else in the series. Even Arya hasn't snapped despite what she's seen. Infact they've even done a 180 on her character and everything they have shown her to be.

1 hour ago, seminoles1 said:

She felt backed into a corner and that this was her only option to get what she wanted and what you have said before she has felt for her entire life is her birthright. Burning the Red Keep and killing Cersei would get her the throne, but doing what she did insured (at least in her mind) that no one would try to take it from her.

She wasn't backed into a corner though. The writers tried to convey that Jon was loved and she would never achieve what he has except that is not true. They tried to slip the geopgraphy by us of where these people are. KL is a very long ways south from the North. These people are not Northman nor do they even know who Jon is, they even admitted in the previous episode Cersei would not let the people know what Northerners did for them against the NK. Which means they probably have little to no knowledge of the events or the people apart of them there.

So she had the opportunity to change this. Even Tyrion would have known this and should have explained it to her that even if Jon had the better claim she can still win the support of the people and that didn't happen for the sake of it not fitting the writing of her falling into madness.