Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[Calvert28]

44 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Still here to point out that this is an assumption/lie. And repeating it does nothing but hurt credibility. 

Lol and maybe Sandor, Gregor, Jaime, Cersei, Euron and all are still alive.

You might be right though, in The Long Night it looked like damn near everyone died by the end of the episode except for the main characters then they come back and say only half their force is gone and people were like "WTF?"

[Matts4313]

Just now, Calvert28 said:

Lol and maybe Sandor, Gregor, Jaime, Cersei, Euron and all are still alive.

You might be right though, in The Long Night it looked like damn near everyone died by the end of the episode except for the main characters then they come back and say only half their force is gone and people were like "WTF?"

There is only a million people that live there, according to quotes, so I would invite you to explain how more than a million died. And saying Cersei's unborn baby doesnt count toward the total tally. 

[Calvert28]

5 hours ago, JonStark said:

She lost a lot in previous seasons? Sure, but she literally lost the only two people she would let close to her in Jorah and Missandei, two of her three dragons, and her rightful claim to everything she's ever wanted in a short time span. Comparing that to things she's lost in the past is just a weak attempt to mask the severity that her state of mind was actually in. 

Still trying to convince me huh?

And Jon lost Ygritte, Pyp, Grenn, and a whole slew of friends at the Battle of the Wall. Still wanted to do his job. You people are just wanting to believe so hard whatever is fed to you that you are not willing to see what the character really is so this show isn't ruined for you.

Sure she is capable of cruelty. She has displayed numerous times in the past that she will use it. But this is someone who has also been responsible for getting both her child and husband killed, she has been raped, beaten, sold into slavery, all manner of things and has never completely lost her **** until this episode and what happened? Jon refused to bone her, and Varys was sending out letters supporting Jon. Missendei was a great friend and one that also talked about leaving her once they put her on the Iron Throne. And I'm sure Dany wouldn't have gone to burn down the island for Missendei leaving either.

No one is ignoring evidence, if Dany had decided to burn down the Redkeep in a fit of anger and then accept the surrender then that would have been far closer to what Dany really is. This was not her showing she wanted to rule by fear. The decision as confirmed was completely spontaneous, you can only assume this was done out of spite.

 

[animaltested]

Using three character deaths in rapid succession to unwrite 7+ Seasons of character development is LAZY WRITING. Side characters being sacrificed to serve the development of one main character is the trope-est of all tropes at this point. Jons legitimacy is a true threat to Dannys goal, but its been seemingly pushed to the side since its not a shocking and visual plot point, and would take too long to fully develop. This is why Vary's and Tyrion had to act so stupidly (Vary's staying to physically close to his subterfuge, Tyrion acting like he has learned nothing in the past) to put this portion of the plot on a run away train to its conclusion.

[Calvert28]

21 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

There is only a million people that live there, according to quotes, so I would invite you to explain how more than a million died. And saying Cersei's unborn baby doesnt count toward the total tally. 

Matts don't get cute. On average more then a million live there, and it's just rounded for the sake of fluid conversation. But then they invite people from all over to take shelter. I'm sure the size increased as well. This is the best image I could find of the aftermath and I don't even see one building standing.

[Calvert28]

Just now, animaltested said:

Using three character deaths in rapid succession to unwrite 7+ Seasons of character development is LAZY WRITING. Side characters being sacrificed to serve the development of one main character is the trope-est of all tropes at this point. Jons legitimacy is a true threat to Dannys goal, but its been seemingly pushed to the side since its not a shocking and visual plot point, and would take too long to fully develop. This is why Vary's and Tyrion had to act so stupidly (Vary's staying to physically close to his subterfuge, Tyrion acting like he has learned nothing in the past) to put this portion of the plot on a run away train to its conclusion.

Except it really shouldn't even put a dent into the mental fortitude of her character at this point considering how much she's lost and how much has happened in the past.

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, Calvert28 said:

Matts don't get cute. On average more then a million live there, and it's just rounded for the sake of fluid conversation. But then they invite people from all over to take shelter. I'm sure the size increased as well. This is the best image I could find of the aftermath and I don't even see one building standing.

75% of that picture is grey and not burning. 

[Calvert28]

5 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

75% of that picture is grey and not burning. 

Oh did she only burn 25% of the city? I'll await your explanation on how and why that was.

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Oh did she only burn 25% of the city? I'll await your explanation on how and why that was.

Because:

A - She didnt need to burn 100% to get her fear across

B - Its illogical to think you can possibly burn 100%

C - There is 0% evidence that she burned 100%, no matter how much BS you continue to spew. 

[animaltested]

4 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Except it really shouldn't even put a dent into the mental fortitude of her character at this point considering how much she's lost and how much has happened in the past.

Absolutely.

The decent into Mad Queen should have happened as a slide into authoritativeness through the long arduous ordeal of dealing with resistance and factionalism, in the post war power vacuum. But that flies in the face of D&D's visual plot point story telling. So instead we get bells. 

[Calvert28]

1 minute ago, Matts4313 said:

Because:

A - She didnt need to burn 100% to get her fear across

B - Its illogical to think you can possibly burn 100%

C - There is 0% evidence that she burned 100%, no matter how much BS you continue to spew. 

You really need to stop. And go back and watch that episode, what you just said was completely asinine.

[Matts4313]

Just now, Calvert28 said:

You really need to stop. And go back and watch that episode, what you just said was completely asinine.

IVe seen it 3 times. The only thing asinine is your rebuttal with out any supporting evidence. 

[JonStark]

20 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Still trying to convince me huh?

And Jon lost Ygritte, Pyp, Grenn, and a whole slew of friends at the Battle of the Wall. Still wanted to do his job. You people are just wanting to believe so hard whatever is fed to you that you are not willing to see what the character really is so this show isn't ruined for you.

Sure she is capable of cruelty. She has displayed numerous times in the past that she will use it. But this is someone who has also been responsible for getting both her child and husband killed, she has been raped, beaten, sold into slavery, all manner of things and has never completely lost her **** until this episode and what happened? Jon refused to bone her, and Varys was sending out letters supporting Jon. Missendei was a great friend and one that also talked about leaving her once they put her on the Iron Throne. And I'm sure Dany wouldn't have gone to burn down the island for Missendei leaving either.

No one is ignoring evidence, if Dany had decided to burn down the Redkeep in a fit of anger and then accept the surrender then that would have been far closer to what Dany really is. This was not her showing she wanted to rule by fear. The decision as confirmed was completely spontaneous, you can only assume this was done out of spite.

 

What does Jon have to do with this? See what I mean about you changing to random subjects? Jon isn't Dany. Either that went way over my head or it was the reachiest of reaches. 

Again, you are clearly choosing to see it that way. Jon wouldn't bone her and Varys was sending out letters set her off? You really can't be serious. How about Varys was conspiring against her? Even if she wasn't aware of the attempted poisoning, Varys basically admitted to Tyrion he would attempt to remove her when Tyrion asked "What about her? in episode 4, hence why Tyrion told Dany about the backstabbing. Jon wouldn't bone her? How about that in her eyes, Jon stole everything she's ever worked for? She literally says no one loves her and everyone loves him, so with him refusing to hide the truth, the only thing she has left to establish power is fear. 

 

 

[Calvert28]

Just now, Matts4313 said:

IVe seen it 3 times. The only thing asinine is your rebuttal with out any supporting evidence. 

:shows an entire city burned to the ground with fire everywhere:

Opposition "Nah can't see anything in that picture with all the smoke"

me "Well why do you think that is?"

Here's another with half the city in flames, and this was like half way through the episode. She was burning everything up until the end.

[BayRaider]

6 hours ago, JonStark said:

She lost a lot in previous seasons? Sure, but she literally lost the only two people she would let close to her in Jorah and Missandei, two of her three dragons, and her rightful claim to everything she's ever wanted in a short time span. Comparing that to things she's lost in the past is just a weak attempt to mask the severity that her state of mind was actually in. 

Where do you get that Dany was surprised by what Jon did? I'm going to need an example of that one. Her crying when she asked him to hide the truth was part of her begging, not being surprised. Hell, when Tyrion walks in and says she's been backstabbed, she asks right away if it was Jon very calmly as if she already knew the answer. It's getting to be a stale and impossible debate with you, as you just dance around all of the evidence throughout the series that people are throwing out and change the subject to points that either have very little to do with what she did or are just flat out reaches. There's really no point in continuing this volley. 

You don't have to be a blind one to see the evidence that has been planted throughout the entire series. Remember, this is likely the ending for GRRM as well, the only difference is the set up and how they got there (which even us defending it admit that it was rushed towards the end). Are you saying GRRM didn't plant any seeds of his eventual ending when he had a say in the show? I'm still waiting on your response to this as well:

I've been pretty unbiased throughout this season. I ripped episode 4 to shreds, as it was probably my most hated episode of the series. It just seems like the people who are hating on it won't listen to any of the evidence that the rest are presenting, and continue to rehash the same complaints over and over again. 

It makes sense from a narrative standpoint of things she says but doesn't make sense what so ever from a character development standpoint and was extremely forced and extremely poorly executed and rushed.

For a simple quote here is Mina Kimes:

I think Dany's turn made sense from a historical/narrative standpoint, but not from what we saw in terms of her character development. People keep pointing to the "signs," but all of her violent actions before were justifiable (for a power hungry person).

Obviously Power Hungry does not = Genocide.

like, if you're gonna convince me she was capable of mass genocide of innocents, you'll have to do better than "she killed some soldiers who refused to surrender last season" and some angry sentences

 

For a more detailed in depth explanation, read these reviews on the episode. They can explain better than me as I'm not typing up pages worth of a response, at least not for free I'm not.

http://collider.com/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-daenerys-decision-explained/

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/13/722629681/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-5-let-it-be-fear