Game of Thrones - Our Watch has Ended

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, cddolphin said:

"Fire and Blood is Coming."

?

Sounds like an awful STD. 

[Matts4313]

32 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said:

I feel like it's a "time saver" since we only have so many episodes this season. They easily could've spent time how things are organized in that place or how Sam has "spent a few days reading" and setting aside literature to help. Not just a "I've been here a few times and I'm just going to run around and grab random crap and hope it helps" which is the feel I got from that scene lol

Even so, I am glad they are dedicating time to the things that actually matter instead of showing Sam going scroll by scroll. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Acgott said:

If Tyrion is a bastard why didn't Tywin ship him off as a ward unless Tywin didn't know. In the case Tywin didn't want to make him heir because of Tyrion's personality

I suspect Tywin was always highly skeptical, but never sure.  I think his skepticism about it is ultimately what made him hate Tyrion more than the fact that his wife died giving birth to him or any other reason. 

[Forge]

7 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

I suspect Tywin was always highly skeptical, but never sure.  I think his skepticism about it is ultimately what made him hate Tyrion more than the fact that his wife died giving birth to him or any other reason. 

Yeah, he even comments on it once in one of the episodes. 

Quote

You ask that? You, who killed your mother to come into the world? You are an ill-made, devious, disobedient, spiteful little creature full of envy, lust, and low cunning. Men’s laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine. To teach me humility, the gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father’s sigil and his father’s before him. But neither gods nor men shall ever compel me to let you turn Casterly Rock into your whorehouse

 

[MacReady]

Just now, Forge said:

Men’s laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.

 

I knew there was a line like that somewhere.  Tyrion confirmed Targaryen bastard. 

[Acgott]

It still doesn't explain why Tywin raised Tyrion at Casterly Rock. He gave him a respectable Lannister name. If he had any inkling he could have easily shipped him off.

[Jakuvious]

3 minutes ago, Acgott said:

It still doesn't explain why Tywin raised Tyrion at Casterly Rock. He gave him a respectable Lannister name. If he had any inkling he could have easily shipped him off.

Reputation, perhaps? It never looked good on Robert Baratheon that he had a handful of bastards, or on Cersei that he slept around. Jon and Ramsay always had a somewhat shameful impact on their families, for their existences. It presumably looked better for Tywin to act as though Tyrion was legit, despite him being a dwarf, than for him to acknowledge or at least raise suspicion that Tyrion wasn't his.

[Acgott]

1 minute ago, Jakuvious said:

Reputation, perhaps? It never looked good on Robert Baratheon that he had a handful of bastards, or on Cersei that he slept around. Jon and Ramsay always had a somewhat shameful impact on their families, for their existences. It presumably looked better for Tywin to act as though Tyrion was legit, despite him being a dwarf, than for him to acknowledge or at least raise suspicion that Tyrion wasn't his.

A lion doesn't concern itself with the opinions of sheep.

He could have said Aerys raped Joanna (which he did). Robert would have happily sentenced the child to death.

 

[Jakuvious]

1 hour ago, JTagg7754 said:

One thing that didn't settle well w/ me this episode was how Sam just seemingly knew which literature to select. He was just going through and knew where everything was that he wanted.

Anyone have anything on this?

In the scene showing Sam working at the Citadel, the bed pan montage or whatever you want to call it, one of his major duties there was returning and sorting books that those above him were reading or working with. Presumably, by this point, he knew well how that library was organized, so even if he didn't know the books themselves, he would've known where to look and would've known some potentially good sources.

[MacReady]

14 minutes ago, Acgott said:

It still doesn't explain why Tywin raised Tyrion at Casterly Rock. He gave him a respectable Lannister name. If he had any inkling he could have easily shipped him off.

Pretty easy explanation: He didn't know one way or another because his wife wouldn't tell him.  You don't kill your son on suspicions of him not being your son. 

[Acgott]

1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Pretty easy explanation: He didn't know one way or another because his wife wouldn't tell him.  You don't kill your son on suspicions of him not being your son. 

Then foster him off with another lord. He was Lord Tywin Lannister. The most powerful lord in Westeros. Every lord would have loved to have this relationship with the Lannisters.

[MacReady]

Just now, Acgott said:

Then foster him off with another lord. He was Lord Tywin Lannister. The most powerful lord in Westeros. Every lord would have loved to have this relationship with the Lannisters.

It's really not that big a stretch to assume:

1. Tywin suspects Tyrion is not his child.
2. Joanna will not admit/lies about it.
3. Tywin decides to assume it's his son, although doubt lingers and it comes out as hate for Tyrion, but keeps him around as his son because he's a proud Lannister. 

There were plenty of times throughout the series where Tywin acknowledged, begrudgingly, that Tyrion did well at certain tasks.  There was a load of resentment there, and yet there was a purveying sense that Tywin wanted to be impressed by Tyrion, and at times was.  Particularly with how Tyrion handled being hand for a brief time, as well as what he did at Blackwater and as Master of Coin. 

You're not coming up with compelling counterarguments.  Not trying to be a butt, just saying. 

[Jakuvious]

1 hour ago, Acgott said:

A lion doesn't concern itself with the opinions of sheep.

He could have said Aerys raped Joanna (which he did). Robert would have happily sentenced the child to death.

 

While that's a very nice quote, Tywin, and the Lannister's as a whole, have shown on many occasions to care a great deal about their reputation. And I don't necessarily mean their reputation with the "sheep" either, but at least with other lords and major houses. Your house's reputation matters greatly when trying to make political moves like, say, marrying off your daughter to the king of Westeros.

Having your house appear to be in order matters.

Also, Robert was not king when Tyrion was born, so Robert wouldn't have anything to do with that ruling. Tyrion's birth would've occurred before the Baratheon king and Lannister queen.

[Acgott]

I don't think there's enough proof that Tyrion is a Targaryan bastard.

Tywin resented Tyrion because he killed the love of his life. Ceresi hated him for the same reason. Tywin also hated him for his whoring and how he carried himself.

The Aerys/Joanna is a book theory which I haven't gotten to yet.

All their mothers died in child birth which is a common thing. A dragon must have 3 heads: Rhaeneya Targaryan had 3 children (Rhager, Viserys, Daenerys), Joanna had 3 (Ceresi, Jamie, Tyrion). Lyanna had only 1 though (Jon Stargaryan). I think we need to get Edmure Tully to touch the dragon. He is the true Targaryan

[Xmad]

1 hour ago, Acgott said:

It still doesn't explain why Tywin raised Tyrion at Casterly Rock. He gave him a respectable Lannister name. If he had any inkling he could have easily shipped him off.

It may not have been his son, But he was Joanna's son. That's probably the main reason why Tywin kept Tyrion around.