Roughing the passer

[Golfman]

I found the new rule so now it all makes sense. 

 

[ricky]

On 9/26/2018 at 5:33 AM, spilltray said:

None of this is Goodell.

He is the commissioner. He is in charge of everyone in the league. He is getting paid over $40 million a year to make and enforce the rules. But he is not responsible for this new rule? Why not? 

[RedRaider]

4 minutes ago, ricky said:

He is the commissioner. He is in charge of everyone in the league. He is getting paid over $40 million a year to make and enforce the rules. But he is not responsible for this new rule? Why not? 

He is the commissioner, but the rule that has everyone upset was implemented in 1995 pre-Goodell.  The thing is that it is starting to be enforced this year to almost to comical lengths.  It's costing teams games, it's being enforced unequally, and no-one really knows what is legal and what is not.  What Goodell is really doing that is causing grief is the he's doubling down on how the rule is being enforced when players, coaches, and fans are all asking for a a change.  "Don't like the call on Clay Matthews?  Well, we're going to make that part of the training videos." And TV ratings are back up. 

One sports commentator likened it to the Simpson's episode when Homer asked for fewer Apples in the Vending Machine at work.  Mr. Burn's response was to add more apples.  Goodell is giving us more apples and we're eating them..

[Leader]

4 minutes ago, RedRaider said:

He is the commissioner, but the rule that has everyone upset was implemented in 1995 pre-Goodell.  The thing is that it is starting to be enforced this year to almost to comical lengths.  It's costing teams games, it's being enforced unequally, and no-one really knows what is legal and what is not. 

Heard on a podcast that league-wide roughing the passer has been called 34 times in 3 games. More than twice that of last (or previous) seasons.
Thats out of hand IMO. Too great a spike in the law of averages.

[ricky]

Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. Troy Vincent says that although the roughing the passer emphasis will continue, the refs will be re-educated as to what actually constitutes roughing the passr. In shohrt, it seems the league has tacitly admitted that the new emphasis (under Goodell, which has caused huge problems) of the old rule (pre-Goodell, and not a problem until he meddled with it) will be enforced in the original interpretation: that unless the tackle is obviously a foul, and meant to hurt a QB, then you don't throw a flag. That, indeed, QB's are also football players. We'll see. The game tonight should be interesting to see how the "roughing the passer" rule is enforced. Lets all hope for a return to common sense. Which, unfortunately, is usually an oxymoron.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/27/competition-committee-conference-call-specifically-called-to-discuss-roughing/

[Stevein2012]

4 hours ago, ricky said:

Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. Troy Vincent says that although the roughing the passer emphasis will continue, the refs will be re-educated as to what actually constitutes roughing the passr. In shohrt, it seems the league has tacitly admitted that the new emphasis (under Goodell, which has caused huge problems) of the old rule (pre-Goodell, and not a problem until he meddled with it) will be enforced in the original interpretation: that unless the tackle is obviously a foul, and meant to hurt a QB, then you don't throw a flag. That, indeed, QB's are also football players. We'll see. The game tonight should be interesting to see how the "roughing the passer" rule is enforced. Lets all hope for a return to common sense. Which, unfortunately, is usually an oxymoron.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/27/competition-committee-conference-call-specifically-called-to-discuss-roughing/

That's pretty ridiculous for a professional league that makes this much money to have to re educate their refs on the rules mid season.  I mean it was obvious this was going to happen during pre season.

[AlexGreen#20]

11 hours ago, ricky said:

Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. Troy Vincent says that although the roughing the passer emphasis will continue, the refs will be re-educated as to what actually constitutes roughing the passr. In shohrt, it seems the league has tacitly admitted that the new emphasis (under Goodell, which has caused huge problems) of the old rule (pre-Goodell, and not a problem until he meddled with it) will be enforced in the original interpretation: that unless the tackle is obviously a foul, and meant to hurt a QB, then you don't throw a flag. That, indeed, QB's are also football players. We'll see. The game tonight should be interesting to see how the "roughing the passer" rule is enforced. Lets all hope for a return to common sense. Which, unfortunately, is usually an oxymoron.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/09/27/competition-committee-conference-call-specifically-called-to-discuss-roughing/

You  understand that Rodger Goodell is literally a puppet, right? His job is to carry out the will of the owners. Every time you curse Rodger Goodell and not Mark Murphy or the NFL, Rodger Goodell is earning his check.

The owners hate QB injuries more than anything. The decline in TV ratings in Rodgers/non Rodgers games was not insignificant, especially after Hundley had thrown out a few stinkers. Those television ratings matter when it comes to discussing the next round of TV contracts, which is where the owners make the most money.

In the owners minds: Healthy QBs = Good TV Viewership. Good TV Viewership = More Money. More Money = Good.

Conclusion: QBs can't be getting hurt so we're going to put in a bunch of additional protections for them. 

The way this rule gets changed is if enough of a tantrum is kicked up by fans and players that the owners start fearing that they're going to lose TV viewership by over-coddling the QBs. Hopefully that's what we're seeing now.

 

 

 

[Norm]

10 hours ago, Stevein2012 said:

That's pretty ridiculous for a professional league that makes this much money to have to re educate their refs on the rules mid season.  I mean it was obvious this was going to happen during pre season.

I actually think they really underestimated the fan reaction honestly, even after the pre season.

[driftwood]

18 minutes ago, Norm said:

I actually think they really underestimated the fan reaction honestly, even after the pre season.

not even the fans... the media/former & current players are killing the rule

the negative kickback is so much right now... even a league that continues to set viewership records cant ignore it. its bad for the game when a rule gets more attention then weekly matchups

 

 

[Norm]

1 minute ago, driftwood said:

not even the fans... the media/former & current players are killing the rule

the negative kickback is so much right now... even a league that continues to set viewership records cant ignore it. its bad for the game when a rule gets more attention then weekly matchups

 

 

Yeah good point, all of the noise is very loud right now. I hear about it everywhere, from people I didn't even know watched football lol

[PACKRULE]

3 hours ago, driftwood said:

not even the fans... the media/former & current players are killing the rule

the negative kickback is so much right now... even a league that continues to set viewership records cant ignore it. its bad for the game when a rule gets more attention then weekly matchups

 

 

It needs to be addressed and from what I've read the NFL is doing a bang up job of sending videos of what not to do? I'd like to see what they have sent for what to do? Players need to see what's acceptable and be able to replicate it then there is no problem.

[Golfman]

2 hours ago, PACKRULE said:

It needs to be addressed and from what I've read the NFL is doing a bang up job of sending videos of what not to do? I'd like to see what they have sent for what to do? Players need to see what's acceptable and be able to replicate it then there is no problem.

They can send videos until hell freezes over. When a guy has been trained to do something one way for 20 years, instincts take over. They can't just suddenly change an ingrained behavior in one training camp. Not to mention the new rule puts them at risk when trying to avoid making good tackles on the QB. 

[Leader]

4 minutes ago, Golfman said:

They can send videos until hell freezes over. When a guy has been trained to do something one way for 20 years, instincts take over. They can't just suddenly change an ingrained behavior in one training camp. Not to mention the new rule puts them at risk when trying to avoid making good tackles on the QB. 

I think Aaron Donald gave everybody the way to go. Dont tackle the guy - just grab him and rag doll him. I was flipping in and out of the game last night. but caught highlight replay of one of his sacks. He grabbed Cousins, spun and threw him on the ground. I was surprised no flag was tossed - but guess thats the new way to go. Just toss em around.....dont bother tackling/landing on them.

[ricky]

18 hours ago, Leader said:

I think Aaron Donald gave everybody the way to go. Dont tackle the guy - just grab him and rag doll him. I was flipping in and out of the game last night. but caught highlight replay of one of his sacks. He grabbed Cousins, spun and threw him on the ground. I was surprised no flag was tossed - but guess thats the new way to go. Just toss em around.....dont bother tackling/landing on them.

Well, there was no body weight put on the QB, so obviously there was no foul. And as long as he didn't pick him up and drive hlm into the ground (if you remember Charles Martin picking up and planting Jim McMahon head first into the turf) then apparently there is no foul. Though my guess would be if Matthews had done what Donald did, there would have been a flag. Seriously, CMIII has been targetted. 

[ricky]

On 9/28/2018 at 6:24 AM, AlexGreen#20 said:

You  understand that Rodger Goodell is literally a puppet, right? His job is to carry out the will of the owners. Every time you curse Rodger Goodell and not Mark Murphy or the NFL, Rodger Goodell is earning his check.

The owners hate QB injuries more than anything. The decline in TV ratings in Rodgers/non Rodgers games was not insignificant, especially after Hundley had thrown out a few stinkers. Those television ratings matter when it comes to discussing the next round of TV contracts, which is where the owners make the most money.

In the owners minds: Healthy QBs = Good TV Viewership. Good TV Viewership = More Money. More Money = Good.

Conclusion: QBs can't be getting hurt so we're going to put in a bunch of additional protections for them. 

The way this rule gets changed is if enough of a tantrum is kicked up by fans and players that the owners start fearing that they're going to lose TV viewership by over-coddling the QBs. Hopefully that's what we're seeing now.

 

 

 

Yes, I do understand the power structure in the NFL. I also understand that the owners do not like this new emphasis on "roughing the passer". And that emphasis was added by Goodell. As the helmet being used in tackling. Both were emphasized during the exhibition season. Yet the helmet contact flags have been almost nonexistent. The roughing penalties have more than doubled as compared to the first three games last season. And, yes, I also realize ratings matter. And the owners are definitely paying attention to all the negative comments they are getting- even from their paid broadcasters. Therefore, the emphasis is going to be tweaked a bit. Probably. The real question is, will the NFL learn that sometimes if its not broken, don't try to fix it? The new emphasis/awareness of concussions was long overdue, and welcome. But football is, at its core, a violent collision sport. And no matter what you do, sometimes stuff happens. Teddy Bridgewater tears up his ACL and MCL dropping back to pass during a practice session. We'll see what happens Sunday, because Buffalo puts pressure on the opposing QB 34% of the time. So AR is going to get sacked. And if Matthews sacks someone, will it automatically be flagged? Stay tuned.