The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly

[NateDawg]

If you hit a franchise QB, everything else is a bonus, and it’s already a win of a class. Things at least look promising there so far. And to have to feel good about Avery, Chubb, Ward, and Callaway’s potential. I’m not saying I’m giving up on the rest of them. Just that the forecast is more bleak there. I hated the Thomas pick then and hate it as much now. That won’t make or break the class though. 

[dawgdish]

3 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Eh, not really.

The refs handed them a 4th down.  We chose to punt.  We could have stopped their offense.  We could have stopped the 2pt conversion, we could have scored in overtime.

It’s easier to blame the refs than accept the Browns blew a game, but that’s pretty much what happened.

Sure, we could have still gone out and won it after that point, and none of the players or coaches deserves a pass for blowing it after then, but it shouldn't have gotten past that point...it should have been 3 kneel downs and done.

[MWil23]

The Good:

1. Baker showed a lot of poise and accuracy, as well as zip on his passes. For the first time in a long time, I've felt good about throwing the ball downfield and opportunities for our WRs to get RAC opportunities due to ball placement. I'm excited.

2. Our running game is a legitimate weapon. The OL looks pretty solid and we have a nice trio of RB's, although the lack of Duke and Chubb is infuriating. Hyde is fine. The good thing about Hyde is that he gets 3-5 yards a pop. The bad news about Hyde is that he turns 8-15 yard runs into 4-5 yard runs due to lack of explosiveness.

3. Our starting secondary looked really good. Randall, Mitchell, and Ward are all very solid. Mitchell getting hurt REALLY hurts us, as our depth is garbage.

The Bad:

1. Peppers and Kindred continue to underwhelm. I don't understand the fascination with Kindred and neither does PFF. He's a bottom 5 safety through 4 weeks in the NFL. Peppers is young and a good tackler, but he's a liability in coverage thus far. Peppers is above average according to PFF, but he's purely a box player IMO. He's not bad, but he's not a 1st round caliber player either IMO. Hopefully he continues to improve.

2. WR's outside of Jarvis Landry. They drop passes like crazy, struggle to get open consistently, and are truly lacking a go to guy on the outside. Calloway is the most frustrating rookie I've seen in a while. He's got dynamic ability and you see flashes of how he could be the next Antonio Brown (or even just a DeSean Jackson), but then you see him drop passes, look out of shape, and disappoint all around.

3. Turnovers: Baker turned the ball over 4 times. That's called growing pains. 1 of those was on Tretter (probably) and 1 was on both Baker AND Calloway (the pick 6) because it was behind him and into a tight window, but it hit Calloway in both hands and he slipped trying to come back for the ball.

The Ugly:

1. Even though the Browns were robbed, they still had an opportunity to get a stop and/or just not allow a 2 PT conversion and they win a ball game on the road and go to 2-1-1 and are in the thick of a tight division race with a golden opportunity vs. Baltimore this week. Instead, they couldn't/didn't finish, which is on the players and coaching staff as a whole.

2. Corbett and Thomas for higher draft picks have been underwhelming. The jury is still out on Corbett (although don't get me started on Will Hernandez if we were going interior OL), but the Chad Thomas pick was an awful one from the get go, especially when I was pounding the table for either Jerome Baker (starter for Miami), Hubbard (rotational and solid DE for the Bengals), and most of all, Maurice Hurst (kid was a first round talent with a potential medical issue...if that isn't the definition of a high reward/lower risk in the 3rd I don't know what is).

[Thomas5737]

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

3. Turnovers: Baker turned the ball over 4 times. That's called growing pains. 1 of those was on Tretter (probably) and 1 was on both Baker AND Calloway (the pick 6) because it was behind him and into a tight window, but it hit Calloway in both hands and he slipped trying to come back for the ball.

I call 100% on Callaway. Did you want him to lead him? That would have been an easy pick. He put the ball in a perfect location where only his receiver could get to it, it just went off of his hands. The field can take some of the blame, as well as Callaway's cleats but the throw was perfect anywhere else and the defense gets a hand on it before it gets to Callaway.

Baker made plays that can be criticized in the game, like passing up an open Johnson for a play that gets them into FG position quicker but I'm not going to blame him for the stuff that wasn't his fault even if he assumed the blame.

Landry needs to catch better as does the rest of the team.I think there were 10 drops, probably not by the unofficial count but by the realistic count. Again I think the field played into that, it caused some incompletions for the Raiders also so it wasn't really a disadvantage for us but a bit of an excuse for some of the drops.

I expect the offense to function better this week assuming better conditions. It is a much tougher defense but as long as the game plan isn't a bunch of passes behind the LOS (our normal gameplan against the Ravens) then I think the offense will be okay.

[MWil23]

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I call 100% on Callaway. Did you want him to lead him?

Apparently you didn't read what I said, which is that he threw it into a tight window (ill advised). He had to throw it behind him because of the frontside coverage, which meant that he shouldn't have thrown it at all.

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

That would have been an easy pick.

Yeah, unlike the one that he threw?

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

He put the ball in a perfect location where only his receiver could get to it, it just went off of his hands.

And it was behind him in a window that he shouldn't have thrown into.

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

The field can take some of the blame, as well as Callaway's cleats

As well as the decision to make that throw to begin with.

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

but the throw was perfect anywhere else and the defense gets a hand on it before it gets to Callaway.

I don't fault the accuracy, I fault the decision making. It was a poor one.

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Baker made plays that can be criticized in the game, like passing up an open Johnson for a play that gets them into FG position quicker but I'm not going to blame him for the stuff that wasn't his fault even if he assumed the blame.

So which of the 4 turnovers that he was credited for was his fault?

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Landry needs to catch better as does the rest of the team.

Which is what I said above.

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I think there were 10 drops, probably not by the unofficial count but by the realistic count.

That's a massive exaggeration.

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Again I think the field played into that, it caused some incompletions for the Raiders also so it wasn't really a disadvantage for us but a bit of an excuse for some of the drops.

Meh, they're paid professionals. They should be able to play on ice and make catches.

19 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I expect the offense to function better this week assuming better conditions. It is a much tougher defense but as long as the game plan isn't a bunch of passes behind the LOS (our normal gameplan against the Ravens) then I think the offense will be okay.

Like I said above in "The Good" section, I think Baker's going to be good. I also think that he showed major signs/growing pains that come with being a rookie. They scored 21 points off of turnovers, which is unacceptable at any level, let alone the NFL. Maybe if Hue and company would have given him more 1st team reps then the timing, delivery/anticipation, etc. that is blamed on both the QB and the WR's will look a lot more crisp and up to standard.

[CleBrowns07]

The refs swallowing the whistle when Garrett was being held was the most infuriating part of watching this game. I specifically remember on Cook’s late TD catch, Garrett was being blatantly held  and no call. Also on one of their long punt returns you could easily see a block in the back followed by a hold. I understand holding happens every play but you gotta call the obvious ones. 

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

I don't fault the accuracy, I fault the decision making. It was a poor one.

So take the sack don't put it on your receiver's hands because he might tip it and and have it intercepted? Don't make tight window throws? Don't throw with anticipation?

You can believe Baker is at fault on that throw I am never going to agree. I see a perfectly placed ball where only his receiver can get to it in which it hit him directly in both hands and was dropped.

It also wasn't behind him, Callaway lost his footing attempting to sit down.

There were 10 drops. It happened. Callaway probably had 5. Officially there were 9 drops: https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-can-t-afford-self-inflicted-wounds-after-9-drops-in-loss-to-oakland

[MWil23]

Ok great. Baker is the GOAT and didn’t turn it over 4 times. Apparently I forgot that I can’t be objective and compliment him on how well he played while saying there’s room for growth.

[Kiwibrown]

@MWil23

joe Thomas but the snap fumble on Baker, as he initiated the silent snap count and fretted is always going to snap the ball as long as bakers hand is on his balls. 

So baker starts the silent snap then tries to adjust the play without letting teeter know.

definition of a rookie mistake from a spread guy

[NudeTayne]

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Ok great. Baker is the GOAT and didn’t turn it over 4 times. Apparently I forgot that I can’t be objective and compliment him on how well he played while saying there’s room for growth.

Now you're getting it. You're one of us now. *Puts secret society jacket on mwil*

[Thomas5737]

55 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Ok great. Baker is the GOAT and didn’t turn it over 4 times. Apparently I forgot that I can’t be objective and compliment him on how well he played while saying there’s room for growth.

No one said he was the GOAT. You can be objective but to place any amount of blame on a QB when the ball hits the receiver squarely in the hands just seems crazy to me. Baker did his job and Callaway didn't. I know Baker accepted the blame for it but I think we all also know how successful Baker has been as a leader and I certainly don't have an issue with his leadership style on the field up to this poin. So according to Baker, he turned the ball over 4 times and it was all his fault. While I respect what he says my eyes tell me there is a lot more to the story.

Anyway I'm done debating whether a ball that hits the receiver in the hands and is tipped to the defense is the receivers fault or the QBs. We'll just have our own beliefs of who gets what percentage of the blame.

There should be some great times ahead and gradually I believe we will all be completely on board with Mayfield and see through the same set of eyes.

[Thomas5737]

49 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

@MWil23

joe Thomas but the snap fumble on Baker, as he initiated the silent snap count and fretted is always going to snap the ball as long as bakers hand is on his balls. 

So baker starts the silent snap then tries to adjust the play without letting teeter know.

definition of a rookie mistake from a spread guy

Maybe, Joe should know more than I but Baker's left hand wasn't under center so I'm not sure why the ball was snapped.

[MWil23]

14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Maybe, Joe should know more than I but Baker's left hand wasn't under center so I'm not sure why the ball was snapped.

If Baker put pressure on JT's nether-regions with his right hand (the top hand used to get snaps), then he felt "goosed", which is used often, especially on the road, in lieu of using a snap count.