When VJ gets fired

[broncofan48]

8 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Today showed again why he’s not the long term answer.   But given this coincides with Sanders & Harris’ injuries I really think it’s no better than a 50-50 prop he’s gone at end of season.   Because those injuries will give cover for Elway.   

That’s assuming that Denver doesn’t lose out which isn’t a foregone conclusion.  I see 2 losses for sure with Oakland being a toss up.  

[Broncofan]

24 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

That’s assuming that Denver doesn’t lose out which isn’t a foregone conclusion.  I see 2 losses for sure with Oakland being a toss up.  

Believe it or not even at 7-9 I wouldn’t count out VJ.  Because we made it 6-6 before losing Sanders and Harris.   

I obviously don’t want VJ to stay long term but I can’t deny how much leash he earned with that improbable 3-0 run (even though it was a huge combination of improbable events that led to the first 2W’s) only to lose Harris and Sanders same game.   Injuries happen but it really offers cover for Elway.  

[broncofan48]

33 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Believe it or not even at 7-9 I wouldn’t count out VJ.  Because we made it 6-6 before losing Sanders and Harris.   

I obviously don’t want VJ to stay long term but I can’t deny how much leash he earned with that improbable 3-0 run (even though it was a huge combination of improbable events that led to the first 2W’s) only to lose Harris and Sanders same game.   Injuries happen but it really offers cover for Elway.  

It might give Elway cover but what makes you think he wants Vance to stay?  Just because he’s earned “leash” in your eyes or media doesn’t mean Elway sees it the same.  If the seat was warm early it doesn’t change because of a couple fluky wins.  Especially getting embarrassed like they did today 

[thebestever6]

2 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

It might give Elway cover but what makes you think he wants Vance to stay?  Just because he’s earned “leash” in your eyes or media doesn’t mean Elway sees it the same.  If the seat was warm early it doesn’t change because of a couple fluky wins.  Especially getting embarrassed like they did today 

Elway isn't stupid he knows keeping vj will turn the fans off . The only way VJ stays is if penny pincher joe ellis doesn't wanna have to pay two coaches. Other than that he's gone.

[Broncofan]

22 minutes ago, broncofan48 said:

It might give Elway cover but what makes you think he wants Vance to stay?  Just because he’s earned “leash” in your eyes or media doesn’t mean Elway sees it the same.  If the seat was warm early it doesn’t change because of a couple fluky wins.  Especially getting embarrassed like they did today 

If Elway wants VJ gone let’s face it he’s done.   But he’s also defended VJ when all hope seemed lost.  And let’s face it Elway tied the current coaching staff’s wagon to Keenum.   That’s on Elway - as was VJ’s hire.   If there is anyone who’s going to be more patient with VJ it’s him.  

None of the above means it’s a lock - but if you read everything that Elway said the past 3 weeks it indicates the heat had all but disappeared.  Of course it’s probably back, but that’s also a long way from saying it’s in the bag.  

The reports VJ was off the hot seat this past week speak to how much the FO is reluctant to change.   Lose out I’m sure the mindset changes....but I do think the point about the ownership being in disarray with the legal battle will make it harder to sell wholesale change, if there’s cover.   Which the Sanders / Harris injuries provide (I agree it’s a mirage BTW - injuries don’t explain being that poorly prepared).

Keep in mind I don’t want the above to go down.   But it’s hard to ignore what’s happened recently in the FO’s mindset either.  

[AnAngryAmerican]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

If Elway wants VJ gone let’s face it he’s done.   But he’s also defended VJ when all hope seemed lost.  And let’s face it Elway tied the current coaching staff’s wagon to Keenum.   That’s on Elway - as was VJ’s hire.   If there is anyone who’s going to be more patient with VJ it’s him.  

None of the above means it’s a lock - but if you read everything that Elway said the past 3 weeks it indicates the heat had all but disappeared.  Of course it’s probably back, but that’s also a long way from saying it’s in the bag.  

The reports VJ was off the hot seat this past week speak to how much the FO is reluctant to change.   Lose out I’m sure the mindset changes....but I do think the point about the ownership being in disarray with the legal battle will make it harder to sell wholesale change, if there’s cover.   Which the Sanders / Harris injuries provide (I agree it’s a mirage BTW - injuries don’t explain being that poorly prepared).

Keep in mind I don’t want the above to go down.   But it’s hard to ignore what’s happened recently in the FO’s mindset either.  

I've been going back and forth on this. The team's PR standing is not in the best shape right now, firing Vance (who is as unpopular as any coach not named McDaniels that I've seen here) would be a welcome move by the fan base. The other side of that coin is that it means Ellis has to pay Vance and his staff the rest of their contracts plus pay a new HC and his staff (and FWIW, yes, there might be some current assistants retained on the new HC's staff) at a time where the future of the franchise is murky. Empty seats and a spike in non-renewals of season tickets is bad for business and a forgettable, losing season means fewer prime time and nationally-televised games next year, which makes it even harder to find a stadium naming rights partner. 

I don't know what to expect. I think if we lose out Vance is gone, we win out Vance stays, but anything in the middle I have no idea. On the one hand he most certainly is not NFL head coach material (the guy on the opposite sideline today is who we should have hired, and I won't stop saying that) and Elway has to know that. But a) is there a better option who we are sure we could land and b) do they want to just bite the bullet and ride it out with Vance for one more year, hope the young guys improve, we have another good draft and we can contend for a playoff spot next year. 

[jsthomp2007]

On 12/10/2018 at 1:23 AM, AnAngryAmerican said:

I've been going back and forth on this. The team's PR standing is not in the best shape right now, firing Vance (who is as unpopular as any coach not named McDaniels that I've seen here) would be a welcome move by the fan base. The other side of that coin is that it means Ellis has to pay Vance and his staff the rest of their contracts plus pay a new HC and his staff (and FWIW, yes, there might be some current assistants retained on the new HC's staff) at a time where the future of the franchise is murky. Empty seats and a spike in non-renewals of season tickets is bad for business and a forgettable, losing season means fewer prime time and nationally-televised games next year, which makes it even harder to find a stadium naming rights partner. 

I don't know what to expect. I think if we lose out Vance is gone, we win out Vance stays, but anything in the middle I have no idea. On the one hand he most certainly is not NFL head coach material (the guy on the opposite sideline today is who we should have hired, and I won't stop saying that) and Elway has to know that. But a) is there a better option who we are sure we could land and b) do they want to just bite the bullet and ride it out with Vance for one more year, hope the young guys improve, we have another good draft and we can contend for a playoff spot next year. 

I think we are one more season with VJ and Keenum...which is why I say build up the defense and develop the young guys on offense to where a veteran coach would see the franchise as a team on the upswing...because it really is...if they can hone in on what they did last year in the draft towards the defensive side of the ball, then the Broncos are a QB and a coach away, I think. 

[BroncosFan2010]

Honestly, as long as we are handcuffed to Case we might as well keep VJ around. Get a real coach in 2020 and let him target the QB of his choice. We are stuck with Case next season, and making a new HC deal with that is not fair. Are we really going to get the pick of the litter re: coaching candidates when they are sure that Case Keenum is their starting QB for 19/20? I think it could scare some away.

[AnAngryAmerican]

First it was Tyrel Austin and now it's John DeFilippo. Hot coordinators rumored to be the next hot HC candidates are biting the dust left and right. 

From ESPN:

Quote

 

The Minnesota Vikings have fired offensive coordinator John DeFilippo, the team announced Tuesday.

Kevin Stefanski has been promoted to replace DeFilippo on an interim basis and will handle play-calling duties.

The Vikings fell to 6-6-1 after a 21-7 loss to the Seattle Seahawks on Monday night. They have scored just 17 total points over the past two games.

 

 

[Broncofan]

45 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

First it was Tyrel Austin and now it's John DeFilippo. Hot coordinators rumored to be the next hot HC candidates are biting the dust left and right. 

From ESPN:

 

With DeFilippo the thing is he's an awesome QB coach.    Still probably is.  But man, he was completely outmatched as an OC.   It's pretty clear Frank Reich and Doug Pederson were the brains in the PHI O coaching staff last year. 

DeFilippo made 3 stunningly bad moves:

1.   Used Latavius Murray in an almost even timeshare over Dalvin Cook.

2.   Used a 5-7 step drop pass scheme which requires 3+ secs for the routes to develop - on an OL that can't keep the pass rush off for 3 secs.    And they have guys who can absolutely do quick hitter routes in Diggs & Thielen, but they're often doing longer-developing routes.  And they haven't used Dalvin Cook nearly enough.   This worked last year because their OL had a strong run game, and so play action and 5-7 step drops were OK when D's had to respect the run.   Now with a non-existent run game, 5-7 step drops and PA don't work - but DeFilippo kept dialing it up.  You could see how frustrated HC Zimmer was, why he kept calling the OC out in post-game.

3.   Behind a terrible OL, has just gone completely vanilla in his run play-calling.  With those WR weapons, spread the field a little more, and run out of spread, Cook can succeed in both I and spread/from the gun.  

Now, to be fair, #3 would require a good OL coach - and MIN lost one of the best in the NFL when Tony Sparano died of a heart attack in training camp.  Crushing blow.  But the total lack of imagination of DeFilippo is a complete and utter disaster.  I don't know if he gets another OC shot for a while.  He deserves to be hired as a QBC for sure, his ability there is impressive.  But sometimes guys are really best suited in that one niche, and can't handle a bigger set of responsibilites.  DeFilippo is a young coach, so there's time, but man, he's certainly not ready now.

 

I realize the above post was more to highlight the perils of going hot OC - but DeFilippo's case is a fascinating one. 

[Broncofan]

The timing of today’s article from Klis and Paige is no coincidence.   To now change the org response that they seriously considered firing VJ this offseason is no surprise - but their willingness to bring it up now again shows the axe is being prepared.   I’d be a little surprised if they did it today with only 2 weeks to go but this timing is no coincidence since Klis is the org’s mouthpiece. 

Scary part was that Mike Shanahan was actually seriously discussed.  Wow please no. 

 

[BroncoBruin]

The big issue I would have with Shanahan is the time away from the game. Most of his problems were as a GM, he was always a good game day coach and a lot of his teams later in his tenure overachieved relative to their talent level. 

[thebestever6]

Sounds like elway was stuck in between a rock and a hard place

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

The big issue I would have with Shanahan is the time away from the game. Most of his problems were as a GM, he was always a good game day coach and a lot of his teams later in his tenure overachieved relative to their talent level. 

Yeah the problem is that the game is so different - and he clearly could not adapt in his WAS days.   That and the fact he couldn't manage a roster with the constraints of a salary cap.   It would be a really uninspired fit in today's NFL.    From a pure in-game strategist perspective, he'd be very good.   But as a HC in today's NFL, no thanks.   While I get the hesitation to go for "flavor of the week" guys - a bigger problem IMO is the perpetual recycling of mediocre to outdated coaching candidates.   It's like being a made man in the Mafia.  

[Broncofan]

FWIW, straight from the organization's Klis' mouth:

I think we can safely count on a change, and no Shanny.   Like I said earlier, the timing of Klis' tweets is no coincidence.   The FO is staging the transition to appease the fanbase.