Marcus Mariota: Is it Time ??

[ShupacTakur]

10 hours ago, deeluxx3 said:

I think the most painful thing is something that I think we can all agree on...Marcus had us all excited in 2016 before the leg injury. Whether you thought his ceiling was MVP or Pro Bowler, we all thought that we had THE GUY. Exciting player, Silent Killer, Locker room leader and a true pro on and off the field. 

And then it’s just seemed to disappear. Injuries played a part, inconsistent play played a part, lack of talent played apart, but I think the most painful is the fact that we never really let Marcus be Marcus. Which could be something special. Now, with LeFleur gone and getting robbed of their second year together, it seems that the deck is just stacked against the guy to succeed. 

Its so hard to find a franchise qb in this league and we’ve struggled desperately to replace McNair. After two failed attempts, it looks like we strike gold with Mariota, but we can’t even get out of our own way to make the most out of him. 

It’s a football sin, to be honest. Maybe it’s the happy hour light beers I drank tonight, but it’s devestating as a fan and guy who just loves this team and loves Marcus.

I agree that our franchise has really done him no favors, but we also have to wonder if he just simply isn't very good and perhaps never was as good as we all thought.

Let's not forget, we literally fired a playoff winning coaching staff for the guy. The fact that LaFleur got virtually nothing more out of him than his predecessors might not be a total indictment on Mariota for various reasons (injuries, new system, etc.), but it's definitely not a positive sign. 

[deeluxx3]

39 minutes ago, ShupacTakur said:

I agree that our franchise has really done him no favors, but we also have to wonder if he just simply isn't very good and perhaps never was as good as we all thought.

Let's not forget, we literally fired a playoff winning coaching staff for the guy. The fact that LaFleur got virtually nothing more out of him than his predecessors might not be a total indictment on Mariota for various reasons (injuries, new system, etc.), but it's definitely not a positive sign. 

but did LeFleur build an O around his strengths? We came out in hurry up on our very first drive against Miami, only to use it sparingly the rest of the year. Never passed in early downs, didn't get the guy in a rhythm...these are things a QB needs to succeed

 

Marcus has his frustrating aspects, but I can't help but think our franchise has snake-bitten him

[KingTitan]

The frustrating thing about Marcus is the moving target of evaluation with him.  It moves because of him, because of fans, because of the team and because of situations.

Him:
His injuries make it hard for him. You best ability is availability, that is the saying. If he is available and hurt, that lowers his production. How do you get a fair evaluation when you aren't putting forth your best product. His up and down play. Because he statistically he wasn't great. He threw for very similar yardage numbers in his 2nd and 3rd year. His completion went up and we won a playoff game. But those INTs are ugly. (4 in one game and three 2 INT games...10 INTs within 4 games). That is ugly. 

Fans:
If you really want to be real and I'm gonna say something sacreligous....he is the BEST QB the Titans have ever had.  Yep I said it. lol  He is a better QB that McNair and if given the chance will own every TITANS franchise record. Not Oilers because Moon was the GOAT. We can talk about eras and what not but numbers are numbers McNair only played 16 games in 4 of his 13 seasons. That's real. McNair was surrounded by some GREAT Titans teams. That's real. Defenses that would have gone down in history if we won the Super Bowl. His BEST year was beaten by Mariota's 2nd year. McNair had the personality people wanted to love and he had a narrative that supported his legend. Took big hits and got back up. But truthfully, he was just as injured as Marcus if not worst. Threaten to quit...I mean Retire from the game because of his injuries until Fisher talked him back into. Marcus has a bad narrative with his injuries and half the fans will not let it go until he proves them otherwise.
He wins games like the fans loved about Vince. He is a good guy like the fans loved about Locker. He plays through injuries like the fans loved about McNair. He is a better QB than all them. 

Team:
You are throwing to undrafted FAs. Not one, not two, not three, but four undrafted FA's are in your teams offensive gameplan.  Compared to throwing to an All-Pro WR in Houston and Indy. An offensive line that struggled to find it's way pass blocking and run blocking. A monster RB that admittedly said he was playing like trash the first half of the season. A 900 yard WR that quits after the 2nd or 3rd game. An All-Pro TE that is hurt in game one. A rookie HC and OC learning on the job. Go back to the Murlakey years, you have offensive game plans and formations that a 10 year old in Madden could predict at times. All though, I thought those years weren't as bad as people made them, but the 3rd year was tough to watch, with the droughts of offensive production. 

Situations:
Maybe this can go under him, but you get hurt and can't feel your hand. You tough through it. You don't get praised for that toughness, you get called fragile. You have a foot injury that you play through, Mac9 gets praised for playing through it, but Marcus you get the shoulder for it. Some of the same things under team can go here too. Rookie OC with head scratching calls. Teammates that quit. Injuries to your line. 7 hour game delays. Blah, well maybe the situations are same as team. lol

All that said, I think it's hard to get a conclusive view of him. I can see how one can say, this is as good as it gets. But for me personally, given all the variables, I can't say that for sure. Maybe he will always be injured. We didn't seem to have a problem with that from McNair. Why? He was surrounded by a better team that could hide those injuries. Turn to hand it to Eddie. Let the defense win 12-10. 

This isn't really a post for or against him. It is just presenting my point of view about him. He is hard to evaluate. But I think he is the best the Titans have ever seen. I would stick with him at least 2 more years. 

 

[ShupacTakur]

17 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said:

but did LeFleur build an O around his strengths? We came out in hurry up on our very first drive against Miami, only to use it sparingly the rest of the year. Never passed in early downs, didn't get the guy in a rhythm...these are things a QB needs to succeed

 

Marcus has his frustrating aspects, but I can't help but think our franchise has snake-bitten him

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you. Just saying there are two very distinct possibilities in play. 

[ShupacTakur]

1 hour ago, KingTitan said:

 

Fans:
If you really want to be real and I'm gonna say something sacreligous....he is the BEST QB the Titans have ever had.  Yep I said it. lol  He is a better QB that McNair and if given the chance will own every TITANS franchise record. Not Oilers because Moon was the GOAT. We can talk about eras and what not but numbers are numbers McNair only played 16 games in 4 of his 13 seasons. That's real. McNair was surrounded by some GREAT Titans teams. That's real. Defenses that would have gone down in history if we won the Super Bowl. His BEST year was beaten by Mariota's 2nd year. McNair had the personality people wanted to love and he had a narrative that supported his legend. Took big hits and got back up. But truthfully, he was just as injured as Marcus if not worst. Threaten to quit...I mean Retire from the game because of his injuries until Fisher talked him back into. Marcus has a bad narrative with his injuries and half the fans will not let it go until he proves them otherwise.
He wins games like the fans loved about Vince. He is a good guy like the fans loved about Locker. He plays through injuries like the fans loved about McNair. He is a better QB than all them. 

 

 

It's funny you put it this way. At the time, I went on record as saying that Mariota's 10 game stretch in the middle of 2016 was the best quarterbacking this franchise had seen since Warren Moon. Unfortunately, the more time passes without him being able to replicate it, the more and more it appears to have been a mirage.   

Edited January 10, 2019 by ShupacTakur

[ragevsuall17]

12 hours ago, -Hope- said:

i mean...yeah. look at mahomes' numbers right now. mariota doesn't have his physical talent and there's no way he'd be reaching 50 TDs but i honestly do think if he had spent his whole career in andy reid's offense he'd be putting up numbers somewhere between prime alex smith and what mahomes is doing right now. it's a total hypothetical so it doesn't mean much, but mariota has a really great skillset that we've managed to pretty much blow.

Mariota does have the skill set to put those kinda numbers up in the right system. And maybe he'd take less hit in a quicker hitting offense... But if anything, that's what would keep him from putting up those numbers. No doubt they'd be much better in a Reid system though. 

[ragevsuall17]

I know none of us can compare our jobs or professions to a QB's... 

But just imagine if you were highly recruited by a company because you were one of the up and coming programmers or whatever it is you do... 

But every year brings a new boss, a new set of SOPs... And just as you were getting used to doing things a certain way, you have to learn a new method. It's still the same job, but now it's different. Wash, rinse, repeat. 

Maybe the first couple of times it's exciting, but how are you feeling going into year 5 with the same thing happening just about every year? Maybe I'm not meeting the incredible expectations they had of me... Maybe I've been extremely liberal with my use of PTO or sick leave balances. 

Hard to compare apples to apples, but I know I'd be getting tired of it and looking for the opportunity to start fresh with a new company... Even if it meant a lower salary with a shot to prove my worth all over again. 

I'm back to thinking Mariota is gonna leave us and become great somewhere. This coming from the fan that's typically hohum about players leaving, recognizing that for the most part players haven't achieved more success after leaving (Blount, Doyle, Hayes being the few exceptions that find to mind). 

If this is the case though, then maybe we can be proactive about making the change. I wonder what we could get back in a trade... Who would be interested... Who do we look at as a stop gap... So many questions I really don't want answers to... But we may be forced to look at... For the sake of the franchise and for the sake of his career.  

Just can't shake this feeling of... Blegh... 

[Dionysus]

10 hours ago, KingTitan said:

The frustrating thing about Marcus is the moving target of evaluation with him.  It moves because of him, because of fans, because of the team and because of situations.

Him:
His injuries make it hard for him. You best ability is availability, that is the saying. If he is available and hurt, that lowers his production. How do you get a fair evaluation when you aren't putting forth your best product. His up and down play. Because he statistically he wasn't great. He threw for very similar yardage numbers in his 2nd and 3rd year. His completion went up and we won a playoff game. But those INTs are ugly. (4 in one game and three 2 INT games...10 INTs within 4 games). That is ugly. 

Fans:
If you really want to be real and I'm gonna say something sacreligous....he is the BEST QB the Titans have ever had.  Yep I said it. lol  He is a better QB that McNair and if given the chance will own every TITANS franchise record. Not Oilers because Moon was the GOAT. We can talk about eras and what not but numbers are numbers McNair only played 16 games in 4 of his 13 seasons. That's real. McNair was surrounded by some GREAT Titans teams. That's real. Defenses that would have gone down in history if we won the Super Bowl. His BEST year was beaten by Mariota's 2nd year. McNair had the personality people wanted to love and he had a narrative that supported his legend. Took big hits and got back up. But truthfully, he was just as injured as Marcus if not worst. Threaten to quit...I mean Retire from the game because of his injuries until Fisher talked him back into. Marcus has a bad narrative with his injuries and half the fans will not let it go until he proves them otherwise.
He wins games like the fans loved about Vince. He is a good guy like the fans loved about Locker. He plays through injuries like the fans loved about McNair. He is a better QB than all them. 

Team:
You are throwing to undrafted FAs. Not one, not two, not three, but four undrafted FA's are in your teams offensive gameplan.  Compared to throwing to an All-Pro WR in Houston and Indy. An offensive line that struggled to find it's way pass blocking and run blocking. A monster RB that admittedly said he was playing like trash the first half of the season. A 900 yard WR that quits after the 2nd or 3rd game. An All-Pro TE that is hurt in game one. A rookie HC and OC learning on the job. Go back to the Murlakey years, you have offensive game plans and formations that a 10 year old in Madden could predict at times. All though, I thought those years weren't as bad as people made them, but the 3rd year was tough to watch, with the droughts of offensive production. 

Situations:
Maybe this can go under him, but you get hurt and can't feel your hand. You tough through it. You don't get praised for that toughness, you get called fragile. You have a foot injury that you play through, Mac9 gets praised for playing through it, but Marcus you get the shoulder for it. Some of the same things under team can go here too. Rookie OC with head scratching calls. Teammates that quit. Injuries to your line. 7 hour game delays. Blah, well maybe the situations are same as team. lol

All that said, I think it's hard to get a conclusive view of him. I can see how one can say, this is as good as it gets. But for me personally, given all the variables, I can't say that for sure. Maybe he will always be injured. We didn't seem to have a problem with that from McNair. Why? He was surrounded by a better team that could hide those injuries. Turn to hand it to Eddie. Let the defense win 12-10. 

This isn't really a post for or against him. It is just presenting my point of view about him. He is hard to evaluate. But I think he is the best the Titans have ever seen. I would stick with him at least 2 more years. 

 

KT may I PLEASE have your blessings to reuse this post of pure gospel to educate some incredibly ignorant naysayers who desperately need a reality check in their lives?  These people are hooked on Madden and living in a microwave popcorn fantasy world thinking everything happens like magic. 

[ragevsuall17]

It wasn't long ago that this guy was one of the most clutch QBs in the league... we need to get this guy back:

 

 

Gotta shake it off... and get back on this MMGOAT train... !!!

[TitanLegend]

7 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

It wasn't long ago that this guy was one of the most clutch QBs in the league... we need to get this guy back:

 

 

Gotta shake it off... and get back on this MMGOAT train... !!!

Numbers didn't change much this year.

34.5% of his drop backs were under pressure, 12th most. They don't list the adjusted on this pressure page, but his 55.6% completion percentage when under pressure was 8th best, his accuracy % when under pressure of 72.5% was 3rd best, and his passer rating under pressure of 76.4 was 11th best.

Another solid point in the "Mariota is still the exact same QB he's always been, bulk stats be damned" argument.

 

[TitanSS]

1 hour ago, TitanLegend said:

Numbers didn't change much this year.

34.5% of his drop backs were under pressure, 12th most. They don't list the adjusted on this pressure page, but his 55.6% completion percentage when under pressure was 8th best, his accuracy % when under pressure of 72.5% was 3rd best, and his passer rating under pressure of 76.4 was 11th best.

Another solid point in the "Mariota is still the exact same QB he's always been, bulk stats be damned" argument.

 

Numbers possibly make him look better under pressure than he actually is. These numbers only take into account when he throws the ball under pressure. The big issue wasn't when he was throwing the ball.

[TitanLegend]

Just now, TitanSS said:

Numbers possibly make him look better under pressure than he actually is. These numbers only take into account when he throws the ball under pressure. The big issue wasn't when he was throwing the ball.

Mariota taking too many sacks/hits has always been a thing. Mularkey just protected him from it so it didn't show up as bad under him.

[TitanSS]

Just now, TitanLegend said:

Mariota taking too many sacks/hits has always been a thing. Mularkey just protected him from it so it didn't show up as bad under him.

Agreed. The formations and protections that many of us, myself included, criticized Mularkey and Robiskie for using and not "playing to his strengths" may have been just that as he tries too hard to use his legs when anyone gets near him.

[TitanLegend]

1 minute ago, TitanSS said:

Agreed. The formations and protections that many of us, myself included, criticized Mularkey and Robiskie for using and not "playing to his strengths" may have been just that as he tries too hard to use his legs when anyone gets near him.

Oh, there's 0 question that what Mularkey and Robiskie did were what best suited Mariota. The issue wasn't their plan, but the execution. Murray falling off a cliff and Henry being too dumb to run through people and instead tried running around them are why the offense fell off as much as it did in 17, and Robiskie/Mularkey just too dumb to change/adapt. It's why I've constantly said Mariota in 17 was largely the same QB he was in 16. Just everything around him was kinda going to **** + having to deal with the hamstring injury(and I'm pretty sure had some back injury or some crap too? idk had something else). In 2016, before that Jags game in week 16, he was healthy pretty much all year. Had the bumps and bruises any NFL player does, but nothing that effected him throwing or running.

Vrabel saw it too. He wanted a heavy amount of run and play action. And if Henry didn't have an IQ of 2 and didn't require Eddie George giving him a stern talking to to run through people, we probably win those Miami and Buffalo games(certainly the Buffalo game) and would be in the playoffs despite Mariota's injuries.

Now it's not all Marcus' fault..I dunno what happened with the o-line in pass pro, especially over the middle of the season, but it just vanished. Yeah some of the sacks were on Marcus, but holy **** was our o-line a sieve in pass pro for a solid stretch of games.

But the formula for a successful offense with Mariota at the helm isn't a mystery. It's just if Mariota stays healthy and our o-line doesn't disappear for 6 or 7 games in pass pro(and I suppose that Henry doesn't forget what Eddie told him).

[TitanSS]

I agree. For the record, I would like to not be a run first team, it's just not what I think is best for Mariota. It's how I think you need to win with him. He may put up better stats in the college offense, but that's not the end game.