Extend Mike McCarthy?

[MacReady]

Just now, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

That is the part that fascinates me about the mind set of Packer fans..  Payton has gone 7-9 in four of the last six seasons and fans think of him as one of the best, while McCarthy has had much better success and he sucks.

I just don't buy the Rodgers is much better than Brees argument.  The current NFL record book doesn't support that.

Doesn't make sense.

Rodgers is not better than Brees.  Period.  I used to hate Drew Brees and Tom Brady and Peyton Manning because they used such cheap methods to move an offense.  Now I see how important that is, and that it's what cripples Rodgers. 

Just look at the way Rodgers throws to backs.  He's awful at it.  Truly awful.  He throws it to them late with no touch whatsoever.  It's not a lack of talent there either.  Can't convince me Ty Montgomery wasn't capable of being one of the better receiving backs in the NFL, and yet he was completely neglected. 

McCarthy probably would have a second Super Bowl by now with Brees. 

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

You don't think coaches scheme the ball into players hands??? 

Still can't tell if sarcastic. 

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

Still can't tell if sarcastic. 

Seriously stop. It's ridiculous if you don't think coaches scheme players into games and chart their targets. I was apart of an NCAA coaching staff, if one of our studs was low on targets, we schemed up a slant, a screen, jet sweep, something to get him the ball. Davante should see double digit targets every game. Graham too if Cobb and Allison are out. If you think Aaron controls the entire offense then there is even more support to fire Mac.

[MacReady]

Just now, Packerraymond said:

Seriously stop. It's ridiculous if you don't think coaches scheme players into games and chart their targets. I was apart of an NCAA coaching staff, if one of our studs was low on targets, we schemed up a slant, a screen, jet sweep, something to get him the ball. Davante should see double digit targets every game. Graham too if Cobb and Allison are out. If you think Aaron controls the entire offense then there is even more support to fire Mac.

So on that play yesterday when MVS was wide open and Rodgers stared Adams down, that was McCarthy's fault because McCarthy didn't dial up an MVS target? 

Also, if McCarthy isn't capable of changing Aaron's stubbornness, who in God's name is? 

If Rodgers can't respect the coach who helped him win a Super Bowl, who in God's name is going to come in here and change Aaron's bad habits?  We ain't getting Belichick. 

If we fire McCarthy, we might as well make Rodgers our offensive coordinator.  You know what that will mean?  That will mean we will completely neglect short passes.  Entirely.  Wholly and completely.  It will be Rodgers looking deep every single play. 

If you think McCarthy not being able to corral the Aaron Rodgers we have created, nobody is.  If Aaron's ego is that bad, nothing will stop it.  It is The Blob. 

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Outpost31 said:

So on that play yesterday when MVS was wide open and Rodgers stared Adams down, that was McCarthy's fault because McCarthy didn't dial up an MVS target? 

This is simple football man, if you can't get it then I'll be moving along and stop wasting my time. It's all about scheme and progressions. Scheming a target for a guy is an easy high percentage throw, shot plays are attacks on areas of the field, not usually schemed targets for a given player. Any good play caller has a section of playbook for targets for his studs. I guarantee McDaniel has a section for Gronk/James White and Payton for Kamara and Michael Thomas. You rub/pick a guy open, you iso him, you given him the route he's best at, throw a screen/bubble to him, etc. Either way you make the guy the #1 read on a high percentage play.

If Mac is going to these calls and Rodgers isn't throwing the ball to his first read (not even rookies here, I'm talking the two vets he should trust) then this is more broken then I thought and Mac has to be the one to fall on the sword. 

The targets for Adams and Graham are unacceptable.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

This is simple football man, if you can't get it then I'll be moving along and stop wasting my time. It's all about scheme and progressions. Scheming a target for a guy is an easy high percentage throw, shot plays are attacks on areas of the field, not usually schemed targets for a given player. Any good play caller has a section of playbook for targets for his studs. I guarantee McDaniel has a section for Gronk/James White and Payton for Kamara and Michael Thomas. You rub/pick a guy open, you iso him, you given him the route he's best at, throw a screen/bubble to him, etc. Either way you make the guy the #1 read on a high percentage play.

If Mac is going to these calls and Rodgers isn't throwing the ball to his first read (not even rookies here, I'm talking the two vets he should trust) then this is more broken then I thought and Mac has to be the one to fall on the sword. 

The targets for Adams and Graham are unacceptable.

Adams had 25% of the targets yesterday, so it is not like they ignored him. If you take the premise that Adams and Graham need more targets in a game like yesterday, and MM starts calling those plays more than he did yesterday making your offense all about those guys and those plays, what are you going to do when teams do what New England did and work to take Adams out of the game?

The team needs to get targets the rookies so the can develop.  At some level, in a game like yesterday,  Adams should get less use, and they rookies more use so you have more experience to use when the games are tougher.   

Despite Rodgers continuing comments, a team can't have sustained success when it is all about one guy.  

[Tartarus]

So we should use our best receiver less to get the rookies receivers more use? That sounds like a winning formula right there 

  

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

2 minutes ago, Tartarus said:

So we should use our best receiver less to get the rookies receivers more use? That sounds like a winning formula right there 

  

 

No, but why target Adams more in a game you win by 3 scores?

 

[CWood21]

47 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

I just wish more people looked at the Saints in relation to whether or not we should fire McCarthy. 

Payton has missed the playoffs 5 times with Drew Brees.  Everybody gives him a pass because the Saints had no talent. 

McCarthy doesn't get that pass.  McCarthy has missed the playoffs 3 times.  Once after taking over for Sherman in the offseason where Thompson let everybody go.  Twice in Aaron's first year.  The third time with Hundley. 

It's just ridiculous to put all the blame on McCarthy. 

How long have there been talk about firing Sean Payton?  The last several offseasons there's been talk about whether or not it's time to move on.  Last offseason was probably the first time in a few years that there wasn't serious talk about moving on from him.  At a certain point, it's time for a fresh voice in the locker room.  The speeches get old and stale.  That doesn't mean they're bad coaches, it's just time for a change.  Right now, there are 8 head coaches who have been hired in 2010 or earlier.  Of those 8, only Marvin Lewis and Bill Belichick have been with their respective teams longer.

[Leader]

II suspect opposing defenses are rotating coverage schemes Adams way - making him a less favorable target - and AR is looking elsewhere.
Cant say what happened to Graham yesterday - he seemed to be MIA. Made a real nice snag - apparently on the one ball thrown his way.
I've been wondering about EQ. He seems to have gone quiet in the receiving side of things. Doing some other things real nice though.

[MacReady]

Just now, Tartarus said:

So we should use our best receiver less to get the rookies receivers more use? That sounds like a winning formula right there

It really does when you're up 24 then 31 points in a game against a hapless offense and you've got aspirations for reaching the playoffs.  More targets for receivers = more experience. 

[CWood21]

43 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

You don't think coaches scheme the ball into players hands??? 

Of his 28 attempts, 7 went to Davante Adams and 7 went to MVS.  That's 50% of his attempts.  Unless you want to take away passes to MVS, you're probably not going to get a ton of attempts his way.

[MacReady]

Just now, CWood21 said:

How long have there been talk about firing Sean Payton?  The last several offseasons there's been talk about whether or not it's time to move on.  Last offseason was probably the first time in a few years that there wasn't serious talk about moving on from him.  At a certain point, it's time for a fresh voice in the locker room.  The speeches get old and stale.  That doesn't mean they're bad coaches, it's just time for a change.  Right now, there are 8 head coaches who have been hired in 2010 or earlier.  Of those 8, only Marvin Lewis and Bill Belichick have been with their respective teams longer.

I'll take a record of success and proven ability to put a talented team on a path to a Super Bowl over a head coach who does a better rile 'em up speech before games that can't scheme, manage or teach any day of the week. 

I don't like McCarthy anymore than a lot of people here.  More than a lot, but not by much.  I just think the risk of striking out on the next one is too great a risk when we know McCarthy can win when he has talent on the team.

Add two first round picks and another Gute free agency and I think all these complaints are completely erased next year.  Just like the complaints of Payton were erased when they added Lattimore, that 32nd overall RT and Kamara in one draft. 

[CWood21]

44 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Rodgers is not better than Brees.  Period.  I used to hate Drew Brees and Tom Brady and Peyton Manning because they used such cheap methods to move an offense.  Now I see how important that is, and that it's what cripples Rodgers. 

Rodgers is absolutely better than Brees.  And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Sean Payton's system is the near ideal fit for Brees.  You think Brees puts up those same video game numbers in New England or Minnesota?  I'm not trying to take anything away from Drew Brees, but he's as much a byproduct of the system as Payton is a byproduct of Brees.  Our offense looks out of sync, and I don't think there's a single person to blame for the issues.

[MacReady]

Just now, CWood21 said:

You think Brees puts up those same video game numbers in New England or Minnesota?

Do I think Drew Brees puts up those numbers with the best receiving duo in the NFL or udner the best offensive coordinator in the NFL?  Yes.  Yes, I do.