MOSteelers56 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: How does Dexter Lawrence compare to Vita Vea? Why is one commonly mocked as a fringe first rounder and one a 12th overall pick? PFF has Lawrence as a similar run defender and a better pass rusher. I think he goes in the top 25, but the position is just devalued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 37 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: How does Dexter Lawrence compare to Vita Vea? Why is one commonly mocked as a fringe first rounder and one a 12th overall pick? Just shows how special this DT class is, last year Vea was the first DT taken, and you have a guy who I think is better in Lawrence who could be the 6th DT taken after he gets selected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: Just shows how special this DT class is, last year Vea was the first DT taken, and you have a guy who I think is better in Lawrence who could be the 6th DT taken after he gets selected. The first five being Williams, Oliver, Simmons, Wilkins, and Gary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: The first five being Williams, Oliver, Simmons, Wilkins, and Gary? I actually had Williams, Oliver, Simmons, Wilkins and Tillery, and 100% Hypothetical on my part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1) Williams 2) Simmons 3) Lawrence 4) Oliver 5) Tillery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 On 4/12/2019 at 6:30 AM, SBLIII said: 1) Williams 2) Simmons 3) Lawrence 4) Oliver 5) Tillery Wow, Lawrence over Oliver? Why do you say that? Just curious, not trying to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 The NFL's website states that one of Christian Wilkins' weaknesses is he is scheme dependant. What scheme must he be in to thrive? He seems like a very good interior pass rusher and that isn't exactly dependant on scheme. I'd also guess he could probably play DE in an aggressive odd-man front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 On 4/15/2019 at 1:25 PM, MOSteelers56 said: Wow, Lawrence over Oliver? Why do you say that? Just curious, not trying to argue. There's an argument. Not a very good one, but there's an argument to be had there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: There's an argument. Not a very good one, but there's an argument to be had there. I know they're way different players. I think Lawrence is a better pass rushing version of Vita Vea, which is very impressive. Oliver could be a stud too. This DT class is absolutely stacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 minute ago, MOSteelers56 said: I know they're way different players. I think Lawrence is a better pass rushing version of Vita Vea, which is very impressive. Oliver could be a stud too. This DT class is absolutely stacked. Oliver has his issues in the run game, and he definitely had a tendency to "freelance" and lose gap responsibility especially in his last season at Houston. Lawrence is more gap responsible than Oliver, bu the also doesn't bring the interior pass rush that Oliver does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 IIRC, Oliver was played as a 2 gap NT at Houston ( at least they lined him up as a 0-tech). He should be a 3-tech in the NFL to really shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 2 hours ago, CWood21 said: Oliver has his issues in the run game, and he definitely had a tendency to "freelance" and lose gap responsibility especially in his last season at Houston. Lawrence is more gap responsible than Oliver, bu the also doesn't bring the interior pass rush that Oliver does. Explain you what you mean when you say "freelance" and "losing gap responsibility"? I am confused because he was a 0 in an odd front, explain specifically how he was freelancing because that just doesn't sound right, plus how can you determine how he can do that if you don't know the defensive call with his individual responsibilities? Also, how can you determine who is more gap sound when Oliver and Lawrence play in two different schemes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 19 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: Explain you what you mean when you say "freelance" and "losing gap responsibility"? I am confused because he was a 0 in an odd front, explain specifically how he was freelancing because that just doesn't sound right, plus how can you determine how he can do that if you don't know the defensive call with his individual responsibilities? Also, how can you determine who is more gap sound when Oliver and Lawrence play in two different schemes? I think how Oliver was used is such an underrated hindrance to his production. Look at two players for instance who played NT in college at Bama. Da’ron Payne and Jarran Reed. Neither ever recorded more than 1.5 sacks in a college season. 5 sacks total in 5 seasons between them. Now you have Payne recording 5 sacks his rookie year and Reed recording 10.5 sacks last season. NFL development and player usage in scheme are likely to bring out the best in Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Counselor said: I think how Oliver was used is such an underrated hindrance to his production. Look at two players for instance who played NT in college at Bama. Da’ron Payne and Jarran Reed. Neither ever recorded more than 1.5 sacks in a college season. 5 sacks total in 5 seasons between them. Now you have Payne recording 5 sacks his rookie year and Reed recording 10.5 sacks last season. NFL development and player usage in scheme are likely to bring out the best in Oliver. That's why certain people project him to be similar to Aaron Donald or Geno Atkins, they know how to differentiate the system that he is currently in and project to the system his skill set is better suited for. This also is why I cringe when you have people who try to attack his lack of pass rush when they should know the system he plays in hinders him from being the force he really should be. Also on the other side, I actually think being in this system helped him be a rock in the run game, he was a force to be reckoned with trying to run at him, mix that with is natural gifts and he will be a force in the right scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: That's why certain people project him to be similar to Aaron Donald or Geno Atkins, they know how to differentiate the system that he is currently in and project to the system his skill set is better suited for. This also is why I cringe when you have people who try to attack his lack of pass rush when they should know system he plays in hinders him from being the force he really should be. Also on the other side, I actually think being in this system helped him be a rock in the run game, he was a force to be reckoned with trying to run at him, mix that with is natural gifts and he will be a force in the right scheme. I agree that the Houston scheme helped him fortify his run stopping. I don’t see anyway he isn’t special besides injury or having some screws loose. He proved to be a great run defender which would be the primary concern for a player his size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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