Tetsujin Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 5 hours ago, goldfishwars said: I don't really see why it should be. Great film + great combine. What else do people want? A purely OG in the first half of R1 in this particular draft would surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 51 minutes ago, freak_of_nature said: A purely OG in the first half of R1 in this particular draft would surprise me. Yeah fair enough, my confidence is more that he'll definitely go in the first round rather than dropping out. So many offensive line needy teams and he's plug and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 36 minutes ago, goldfishwars said: Yeah fair enough, my confidence is more that he'll definitely go in the first round rather than dropping out. So many offensive line needy teams and he's plug and play. The end of R1 seems to be the best spot for these OG's to go. They're plug n play on a good team without many weaknesses, and a pretty safe pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 7 hours ago, CWood21 said: What tresholds did Jonah Williams hit? Most look for 34" arm length, and he was 33 5/8" which is short of what you're looking for RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 26 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Mitchell Schwartz was the All Pro right tackle this last season and his arms are 33.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, goldfishwars said: @IDOG_det He's a stellar athlete. Can you at least agree to this now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, goldfishwars said: Mitchell Schwartz was the All Pro right tackle this last season and his arms are 33.5. Patrick Mahomes and the points that offense scored made Mitchell Schwartz an All Pro. I get what you are saying though I don't think always need to have super long arms. Joe Thomas and Riley Reiff have had success with sub 34" arms and so have plenty of other guys. I just hate when I see this Mitchell Schwartz was great stuff because I have to listen to Browns fans whine and moan like little girls because we didn't resign him, but ever time I watch KC he is hands down their worst offensive lineman and without help is typically giving up pressures. He's a good run blocker but very average as a pass protector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 38 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said: I just hate when I see this Mitchell Schwartz was great stuff because I have to listen to Browns fans whine and moan like little girls because we didn't resign him, but ever time I watch KC he is hands down their worst offensive lineman Cameron Erving is on that KC offensive line bruh. He's literally worse than a dead fetus. I was not a Mitchell Schwartz fan in Cleveland. He just constantly caught blocks and never really did anything good or bad. He was the epitome of average but I'd argue he was actually below average in the run game. He never drove his feet and he would essentially just position block everything. On pass rushes, he'd get bullied into the QB's vision and throwing lanes, but not give up many sacks. He was not even close to being an all-pro in Cleveland and I totally agreed with the decision to move on from him. We haven't done great at RT since he's been gone, but I don't think he's nearly as good as his contract or his accolades are making him out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, TheeRealDeal said: Patrick Mahomes and the points that offense scored made Mitchell Schwartz an All Pro. I get what you are saying though I don't think always need to have super long arms. Joe Thomas and Riley Reiff have had success with sub 34" arms and so have plenty of other guys. I just hate when I see this Mitchell Schwartz was great stuff because I have to listen to Browns fans whine and moan like little girls because we didn't resign him, but ever time I watch KC he is hands down their worst offensive lineman and without help is typically giving up pressures. He's a good run blocker but very average as a pass protector. Okay, if you're not buying Schwartz then Jonah Williams also has the same arm length as Ryan Ramczyk and Taylor Lewan. The problem isn't so much his arm length, it’s that we’ve seen him get out leveraged at times and people want to attribute that solely to his arm length. People went on about it so much I assumed he was going to have 30 inch cocktail sticks, but now he’s a smidge lower than ideal and people are like ‘ah, that confirmed my theory.’ Well not really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 minute ago, goldfishwars said: Okay, if you're not buying Schwartz then Jonah Williams also has the same arm length as Ryan Ramczyk and Taylor Lewan. The problem isn't so much his arm length, it’s that we’ve seen him get out leveraged at times and people want to attribute that solely to his arm length. People went on about it so much I assumed he was going to have 30 inch cocktail sticks, but now he’s a smidge lower than ideal and people are like ‘ah, that confirmed my theory.’ Well not really... Like I said I am total agreement with you about your argument I just couldn't pass up a chance to set the record straight about Schwartz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 10 hours ago, IDOG_det said: Do you not see the comparison between Jonah Williams and David Bakhtiari? Both of them model their games after Joe Thomas and both are pretty damn impressive imitations. It's funny, my comp for Jonah Williams before the combine was David Bakhtiari and he put up damn near identical numbers. The sudden dislike for the best offensive lineman all year long is baffling to me. Not really, no. Like you said, the Packers have had a very tight athletic threshold for their OL and only one (Cole Madison) fell outside their range, and that was by the slightest of margins. The 3-cone has been one of the more important athletic tests for GB with regards to their OL, and Jonah Williams came in 3/10th of a second longer than Bakh. Are we comparing him to Bakh coming out of Colorado or to him now? Because I don't think people thought that Bakh was this elite pass protecting LT coming out of Colorado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 9 hours ago, IDOG_det said: Jonah Williams is a left tackle. He has played on the right side before and his skillset could translate to guard, but any reasonable team needing a left tackle should view him as a left tackle. Nothing important separates Andre Dillard from Jonah Williams, however a lot separates Jonah Williams from Andre Dillard. It all pretty much relates back to Jonah knowing how to play the position at a high level and proving it repeatedly on the field, while Dillard showed he hasn't been taught how to play the poaition and repeatedly displayed techniques or a lack thereof that will get him beat at the NFL level. Dillard jumped further and ran faster in spandex though so can't forget that. You kind of stated it though, two-three QBs, a handful of front 7 players, and maybe three WR/TE could go in front of him. That still puts his floor at the middle of the first. The only way he goes lower is if teams actually have Ford/Taylor ahead of him and those rumors aren't just smoke to get teams thinking 30 different guys could go top 10. Which is doubtful considering he was everyone favorite all year long heading into the combine and smoke season. He's going to get a crack at LT because they're inherently more valuable than RT or IOL, that's why he's going to get a shot at that position first. But this is that Washington OL (his name is escaping me right now), where they're going to give him a shot to win the LT position, but don't be surprised when he ends up better as an OG or RT. As for Dillard, he has elite movement skills. You don't end up in the top 10 percent of 3-cone, 40 yard dash, and 20 yard short shuttle by accident. Especially not at 315 pounds. He's an elite athlete. You can teach someone technique and skills, you can't teach athleticism. That's the biggest knock on Dillard is that coming out of the offensive scheme he played in Washington State hasn't prepared him to play in the NFL, which is why I think the immediate return on Jonah Williams will be higher, but long-term Andre Dillard will be the better player. It's also why there is inherent risk with Andre Dillard. I'm not saying Jonah is going to fall out of the first round all together. OT is still a premium position on draft day, he's just slid back a few spots. Dillard has probably jumped him, and based on everything that's transpired I wouldn't be surprised if Dalton Risner jumped him as well. He's probably better than Jawann Taylor, and Cody Ford has a specific fit for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDOG_det Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 hour ago, BleedTheClock said: @IDOG_det He's a stellar athlete. Can you at least agree to this now? He tested very well in those drills. I never denied that, I only disagreed with the idea that he is elite/special. Those drills aren't really what one should look for in an OL athlete though, so it doesn't really move the needle for me. If he had shown improvement in the drills then maybe that would be something noteworthy, but really he didn't do anything I didn't already expect him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDOG_det Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Not really, no. Like you said, the Packers have had a very tight athletic threshold for their OL and only one (Cole Madison) fell outside their range, and that was by the slightest of margins. The 3-cone has been one of the more important athletic tests for GB with regards to their OL, and Jonah Williams came in 3/10th of a second longer than Bakh. Are we comparing him to Bakh coming out of Colorado or to him now? Because I don't think people thought that Bakh was this elite pass protecting LT coming out of Colorado. Comparing him to Bakhtiari the NFL All-Pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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