Cearbhall Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Virginia Viking said: I turned off the game after the Cousin's interception at the beginning of 2nd half. That play typified who Cousins was in Washington. People are blaming Diggs for stopping his route. Even if he had continued, there is no reason that Cousins should've attempted that pass, then and there. He should've thrown it away. Even taking a sack would've been better than a pick six. So, yeah...I think Cousins has significant responsibility for that interception. It sounds like the Vikings offense never really recovered. I would alter your statement...SOMETIMES Cousins is a good QB. And sometimes he is a really dumb QB. Thanks for posting your take. Takes that do not simply agree with consensus are some of the most worthwhile takes to read. The fewer independent takes like this we have here, the more the forum becomes an echo chamber that will only server to reinforce via confirmation bias and become a waste of time to read. Your take here is very valuable; it is more useful that much of the propaganda posted by self-appointed overlords believe any opinion that differs from their own has little to no value. Do not let the unrighteous indignation of those that believe their opinion, or consensus opinion, is the only valid opinion discourage you from continuing to contribute dissenting opinions. There is a severe lack of dissenting opinions here mostly owing to how those opinions are treated by the self-appointed overlords. For everyone that does not require the security of an echo chamber dissenting opinions are the spice that flavors the board and makes it worth reading. I appreciate your challenging of the consensus as it gives me reasons to reevaluate and look harder at things. Even after reevaluation, I don't agree that Cousins has significant responsibility for that interception. At most, I would say he has tangential responsibility. There are things he could have done to avoid it but in the end I still agree with popular opinion that the bulk of responsibility belongs to Diggs. My personal bias causes me to knee-jerk put secondary responsibility on the offensive line for not giving Cousins more time. Tangential responsibility can go to Cousins as he was involved but I do not want a QB that is scared to try to make throws. I don't want a QB that will always eat it and take a sack in order to have no risk of throwing an interception. As a Vikings fan, I have already seen far too many QBs that are unwilling to pull the trigger unless there is already separation. I would prefer the risky throws to be downfield rather than along the line of scrimmage where a mistake is a lot more likely to result in a defensive touchdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 ...but he still should have thrown the ball elsewhere...and he should have thrown the ball away on the "almost" fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: There is a severe lack of dissenting opinions here mostly owing to how those opinions are treated by the self-appointed overlords. whaaaaat? as a member here for 13 years now and as one who has spent years watching how other team forums on this site handle dissent, i can state easily your view is not an accurate representation of our forum mentality. but you of course are due your view of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, vike daddy said: whaaaaat? as a member here for 13 years now and as one who has spent years watching how other team forums on this site handle dissent, i can state easily your view is not an accurate representation of our forum mentality. but you of course are due your view of things. Pretty much all forums (not just on the Internet) suffer from group think. It is why I choose harvest information from as many different sources as possible -- ideally with various biases. Virginia Viking hasn't hidden his bias from us. I enjoy reading his perspective coming from that bias. I just hate to see the way dissenting opinions are treated. I agree that it isn't a problem exclusive to this site. I have seen dissenters driven from here more regularly and ruthlessly than some other places I read. On the other hand, some other places are even worse and flat out ban people that don't agree with the cognoscenti. Just yesterday I saw an article get posted to this site about Cousins. It was immediately ridiculed as a waste of time to read. That is not my ideal level of discourse to spend my time reading. There is plenty of good conversation here but too often dissenting opinions are treated that way IMO. There is value in perspectives that come from different biases than our own and I want that recognized rather than dismissed, ostracized, disregarded, or ignored. These are behaviors that I have observed here on a semi-regular basis from more than just a single poster. It seems to be a prevailing way of dealing with it. The "like" functionality here indicates to me that many posters here appreciate that type of response to opinions they do not agree with. The post that called the article about Cousins a waste of time was liked by at least three people. Since I don't have a dislike button to counter that when I saw something similar today I resorted to typing a message. To be clear though, these two examples in the last two days are but an sampling of a trend that I have observed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 so someone offers an opinion... someone else counters with a strong reply that they don't agree with it... so what? why is that problematic? there is no institutional structure here that doesn't allow the opinion. there is no punishment for the opinion giver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, vike daddy said: so someone offers an opinion... someone else counters with a strong reply that they don't agree with it... so what? why is that problematic? there is no institutional structure here that doesn't allow the opinion. there is no punishment for the opinion giver. It is problematic because it discourages people from offering dissenting opinions and the echo chamber is strengthened. This site is overwhelmingly dominated by just a few hands full of posters. There are many potentially strong posters that have found other places to express their valuable opinions. I have seen this enough times to recognize that this is a symptom not of a growing community but a community in decline. I would prefer to see the community thrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 Just because someone indicates that it's a waste of time to read isn't emblematic of stifling the conversation. If anything, it made me want to read it so I could form my own opinion. Using that excuse to not read it just means that you never really wanted to read it in the first place. After I read the piece in question, I didn't believe it was a waste of time to read, but I agreed that Freeman was short-sighted in his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Cearbhall said: It is problematic because it discourages people from offering dissenting opinions and the echo chamber is strengthened. 1) This site is overwhelmingly dominated by just a few hands full of posters. 2) There are many potentially strong posters that have found other places to express their valuable opinions. I have seen this enough times to recognize that this is a symptom not of a growing community but a community in decline. 3) I would prefer to see the community thrive. 1) i'm not sure what you mean by "dominated." some members are definitely more active than others, posting hourly or at least daily as opposed to the occasional poster. but the active members' views are not regraded as more accurate or truthful by any formal or informal structure. nor are they bullies who do not allow a dissenting opinion to be voiced. we have members like that, ones who bully and dominate and are rude and disrespectful in doing so. historically, they have become bored and chose to move on to sites where more aggressive behavior is tolerated if not encouraged, and in some instances they were banned from membership at FF after repeated warnings they were stepping outside of boundaries they had agreed to maintain upon signing up as a member. but to be honest, i don't think a FF Viking forum member has been banned for such behavior for 4 or 5 years now. 2) i would like to see the hard data you have to show that posters here have left, joined other sites, and expressed their reason for doing so being a lack of tolerance at FF. until you can produce that, your view is not factual but merely an opinion, and perhaps is one fueled by bias. 3) everyone here does, you are not alone in that desire. in our weekly Game Day threads we often have members form other FF team forums come and join in discussions. routinely we are told that Viking fans here are some of the best of the entire FF site, explicitly FOR their tolerance of others, professionalism in how they express their views, and sense of camaraderie we stimulate. this is not my opinion, this is what we are told by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, vike daddy said: i would like to see the hard data you have to show that posters here have left, joined other sites, and expressed their reason for doing so being a lack of tolerance at FF. until you can produce that, your view is not factual but merely an opinion, and perhaps is one fueled by bias. I agree that my view is not factual and an opinion that is of course fueled by bias. You have been lucky to participate in this forum for 13 years. That is not the norm. There is only one Vikings message board that I have ever participated in for longer than that. My opinion is somewhat fueled by the multiple forums I have participated in that I have watched grow into vibrant communities only to see them wane into becoming irrelevant. Having seen this full life cycle multiple times clearly is a big part of my opinion and bias on the topic. It makes me sad to lose the many "Internet friends" I have conversed with about the Vikings when this happens. Not knowing most of these people outside the online forum I never hear from them again. Sometimes I wonder where some of them ended up and how they are doing. If a community does not get a constant inflow of new members a community will die. I am not going to dig up the research that I have seen (and it isn't specific to football message boards but groups in general) but that data pointed to new membership in the previous five years being at or above 30% as emblematic of a growing group. At around 20% new membership (members that have joined in the last five years) a group will remain about static in size. Less than 20% and there is a decline. I know that I have only been posting here for a short time, but I was an offseason lurker for some years before that. There are many great posters that I read back then that I no longer see posting. I do not see the number of new posters that I would expect in a healthy growing social group. Some of that is based in actual research although not exact since I am not looking at it right now. As far as the reason, you are right that my opinion is but a theory. I would be curious to see other theories and even more curious to see what people think we should do about that. Another theory I have is the changes in the technology landscape. Internet message boards in this format as a whole are struggling mightily as there are plenty other options available. Do people here even want to community to live? To grow? This is all far too off topic for this thread. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Cearbhall said: You have been lucky to participate in this forum for 13 years. That is not the norm. If a community does not get a constant inflow of new members a community will die. This is all far too off topic for this thread. Sorry. it may be off topic but it is of crucial importance to visit the topic in our community here and there at times. i have been a member here since March 2005, but there are current members who have been here a bit longer, and MANY members who have been here about the same time. it was the Troy Williamson draft that brought us all together, lol! that being said, we have a constant influx of new members, you yourself are one. we also refresh our two moderator team in a regular fashion. this online community does well in my opinion. while a majority of FF Viking forum members tend to agree with each other, that does not mean a groupthink mentality is present, and it certainly does not mean that dissenting opinions are not recognized, allowed, and even encouraged. it just means most people see it that same way, which is sort of to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: It makes me sad to lose the many "Internet friends" I have conversed with about the Vikings when this happens. Not knowing most of these people outside the online forum I never hear from them again. Sometimes I wonder where some of them ended up and how they are doing. yes, i too have made friends here of individuals i have never met in person and probably never will. it is an odd and unusual relationship. having the longevity our forum has had, we call it our Clan, allows us to see many changes in our members' lives. we see teenagers grow in to young men... we see single men find their wives and begin lives together... we see married men divorce, and often remarry... we read of pregnancies and births, and share their excitement when it is their first... we read the stories of the challenges they face and the successes they have... and some day we will have to deal with the death of one of our own. we share our lives, and we welcome new members and what they bring to our community with their individuality. Hey! i guess I haven't mentioned this yet, as it's so new to me in my life, but vike daddy will become in January for the first time vike granddaddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I'm thankful the Vikes board is one of the more active forums on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, vike daddy said: Hey! i guess I haven't mentioned this yet, as it's so new to me in my life, but vike daddy will become in January for the first time vike granddaddy. Congratulations...and I hope not to be a vike grandaddy anytime soon...despite my daughter turning legal drinking age in about 4 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Cearbhall said: It is problematic because it discourages people from offering dissenting opinions and the echo chamber is strengthened. This site is overwhelmingly dominated by just a few hands full of posters. There are many potentially strong posters that have found other places to express their valuable opinions. I have seen this enough times to recognize that this is a symptom not of a growing community but a community in decline. I would prefer to see the community thrive. Let me state...for the record...I am not easily offended by other posters opinions of my opinions. I consider the discussions we have to be 95% opinion, laced with an occasional fact or two, and I am okay with that. Specifically regarding Cousins...I don't believe I have an axe to grind. However, if others believe that I do...it doesn't bother me. I do pop off now and then regarding the Vikings and specific players, but I do try not to pop off against a fellow poster. They have a right to their opinions. I enjoy this board. I joined in 2007, and don't intend to disappear. There are times when I am less active because of the fullness of my life and work, but I hope that no one thinks I am off in the corner pouting. I assure you, that's not the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozizaki Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I'm not sure why we're giving the defense a pass on this game. Yeah, they played WAY better than the box score indicated, but the 15 play, 8 minute and 15 second drive NO turned into their final points of the night iced this game. And the majority of those plays were on the ground, where the defense is far healthier and plays much better. I know the Saints O-Line is terrific, but in the Rams and Saints games I believe the Vikings inability to stop the run has led to opposing offenses being able to be more creative and keep the defense off balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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