Week 8: Saints (5-1) at VIKINGS (4-2-1)

[SemperFeist]

 

[SemperFeist]

The logic some people come up with. Unreal

[TENINCH]

2 hours ago, milanb said:

Yes.

There is a reason why Washington replaced him with Alex Smith.

There is also a reason why Kansas City replaced Alex Smith with Pat Mahomes. Namely, Mahomes is the real deal. If the Vikings hadn't traded a first-rounder to the Eagles to get Sam Bradford, Mahomes might be a Viking right now. At least the Vikings would have been in a position to trade up and get him.

 

Cousins is the least of our problems.

[milanb]

 I don't wish to overstate the case here, because I do think that Cousins is a good QB.

However, I also think that he is always going to be a guy who turns the ball over just a bit too much to be an elite QB. Kind of like Jay Cutler.

[SemperFeist]

Not sure that I agree that Cousins turns the ball over too much. He’s got 4 interceptions through 8 games, can’t really ask for much better than that. Especially with how much he’s throwing the ball. 

The fumbles aren’t ideal, but, quite frankly, it’s easy to fix. Better pass protection. Of his 5 true fumbles, there’s 3 that I don’t think any QB would have been able to hang onto. 

[navysaintsfan]

13 hours ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

He annoyed the hell out of me (for no .good reason lol)

My dad and I were joking that he'd line up at DT by the 4th quarter.

We are honestly wanting him to take snaps at CB/S because why not? Dude can hit and tackle, he's straight jacked. Just needs to work on his back pedal

[vikesfan89]

4 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

Not sure that I agree that Cousins turns the ball over too much. He’s got 4 interceptions through 8 games, can’t really ask for much better than that. Especially with how much he’s throwing the ball. 

The fumbles aren’t ideal, but, quite frankly, it’s easy to fix. Better pass protection. Of his 5 true fumbles, there’s 3 that I don’t think any QB would have been able to hang onto. 

Especially when 3 weren't heis fault

The near fumble would have been really bad. He's got to throw the ball or get down

[vikesfan89]

4 hours ago, navysaintsfan said:

We are honestly wanting him to take snaps at CB/S because why not? Dude can hit and tackle, he's straight jacked. Just needs to work on his back pedal

Is he really the fastest player on the team? Just doesn't look like it

[SemperFeist]

8 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

Especially when 3 weren't heis fault

The near fumble would have been really bad. He's got to throw the ball or get down

I’m not willing to go as far as to say that 3 weren’t his fault. They may not have been on him, but he’s also gotten lucky on a few throws that should have been INTs. 

[vikesfan89]

Just now, SemperFeist said:

I’m not willing to go as far as to say that 3 weren’t his fault. They may not have been on him, but he’s also gotten lucky on a few throws that should have been INTs. 

True but it seems like there's been less of the near interceptions than usual. I could be wrong but with the amount see throw, that seems pretty good

[SteelKing728]

13 hours ago, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

I agree.

Seems like we're a team that can rattle off a few wins, lose a game we should have won, rattle off a win, lose one or two.

I think we can beat any team in the league (We barely lost to a 7-0 Rams team....we could/should have beat the 6-1 Saints) but we're capable of blowing a very winnable game at the same time.

Yeah, we are. If we can win the next 3, we'll be sitting pretty. We just need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, milanb said:

 I don't wish to overstate the case here, because I do think that Cousins is a good QB.

However, I also think that he is always going to be a guy who turns the ball over just a bit too much to be an elite QB. Kind of like Jay Cutler.

I turned off the game after the Cousin's interception at the beginning of 2nd half.  That play typified who Cousins was in Washington.  People are blaming Diggs for stopping his route.  Even if he had continued, there is no reason that Cousins should've attempted that pass, then and there.  He should've thrown it away.  Even taking a sack would've been better than a pick six.  So, yeah...I think Cousins has significant responsibility for that interception.  It sounds like the Vikings offense never really recovered.

I would alter your statement...SOMETIMES Cousins is a good QB.  And sometimes he is a really dumb QB.

[JDBrocks]

Bias much? You were so ready to see Cousins for who you thought he was in Washington that you are now resorting to pretty bad arguments to show that you were right. 

If Diggs keeps running that’s at worst an incompletion. Maybe a contested catch. 

The offense never recovered after Thielen’s fumble. But sure, find a way to blame Cousins.

[SemperFeist]

26 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

Even if he had continued, there is no reason that Cousins should've attempted that pass, then and there.  He should've thrown it away.  Even taking a sack would've been better than a pick six.  So, yeah...I think Cousins has significant responsibility for that interception.

This is just a really bad take. 

Former player after former player, receiver after receiver, quarterback after quarterback, analyst after analyst has said that the mistake was Diggs’, that a receiver should never stop their route against man coverage. But because you dislike Cousins, in your mind it’s his mistake? 

[Krauser]

This is another game that's being misunderstood because fans don't understand the effect on the number of drive opportunities on the final score. 

The effect this time is that the Vikings defense is getting too much credit while the offense is taking too much blame. 

Yes, the Saints "only" put up 23 points and 270 yards on offense, but that came on only 8 drives. 

Saints Drives

#	Quarter	Time	LOS	Plays	Length	Yds	Result
1	1	15:00	NOR 19	7	4:27	81	Touchdown
2	1	03:16	NOR 25	3	2:14	3	Punt
3	2	11:57	NOR 33	8	4:30	33	Field Goal
4	2	04:21	NOR 33	4	1:18	22	Interception
5	2	00:57	MIN 18	2	0:27	18	Touchdown
6	3	12:28	MIN 45	9	4:09	21	Field Goal
7	3	02:50	NOR 16	15	8:15	60	Field Goal
8	4	04:26	NOR 43	7	3:17	18	Punt

Only 2 of those drives were successes for the Vikings defense: the 3-and-out (Linval smothered a screen for a loss of 5, followed by 2 short passes including a checkdown on 3rd-and-14) and the interception. All 3 of NO's second half drives were huge successes, even though they only scored 6 points: they chewed up >15 minutes of game time (the Saints lead the NFL at 3:17 per drive, but they averaged >5 minutes here in a clock killing situation after the pick 6) with multiple 1st downs and no turnovers. Even the final drive where they punted, the Saints put up 2 first downs to ice the game.  

The Saints scored 23 points on those 8 drives, which is nearly 3 points per drive (would be 3rd in the league this year, just behind the Rams at 3.06 points per drive). 

The Vikings offense meanwhile scored 20 (should've been 21) points on what counts as 8 drives of their own (end-of-game and end-of-half drives don't count), and almost certainly scored more if Thielen hadn't fumbled: 

Vikings Drives

#	Quarter	Time	LOS	Plays	Length	Yds	Result
1	1	10:33	MIN 9	13	7:17	91	Touchdown
2	1	01:02	MIN 20	7	4:05	80	Touchdown
3	2	07:27	MIN 25	4	3:06	16	Punt
4	2	03:03	MIN 33	8	2:06	53	Fumble
5	2	00:30	MIN 25	1	0:30	7	End of Half
6	3	15:00	MIN 25	6	2:32	20	Downs
7	3	08:19	MIN 25	5	2:21	19	Interception
8	3	05:58	MIN 20	5	3:08	24	Punt
9	4	09:35	MIN 25	13	5:09	75	Touchdown
10	4	01:09	MIN 9	5	1:09	53	End of Game

The Vikings had no 3-and-outs, but had 5 failed drives:

1. Holding penalty on Elflein wiped out a 23 yard gain by Murray to the Saints 37, which was followed by a quick sack (Rankins through Isidora)
2. Thielen fumble
3. 4th and 1 failed conversion to Treadwell near midfield
4. Pick 6
5. Punt late 3rd quarter (from the MIN 45: Murray for 6, Murray for 0, sack by Rankins through Elflein)

Three mistakes (Elflein's holding penalty, Thielen's fumble, Diggs stopping on the crossing route) cost them heavily, but the offense was otherwise pretty effective:

• 45.4 yards per drive (excluding the EOH and EOG), slightly better than the Rams league leading 45.3 this year
• 2.5 points per drive, should've been 2.65 if not for the missed XP, which would be a little better than the Chargers 4th best 2.63

...

Note that the per-drive analysis worked the other way in the Jets game, where each team had 16 (!) drives, making the defense's points allowed total of 17 quite impressive, and the offense's points scored total of 37 less so.