MVP Race

[Soko]

2 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

His impact on games are greater given the timeliness of his splash plays,

Like a pick 6 in a playoff game type of timeliness?

Half joking - this is an extremely subjective point to make.

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the double teams he commands and beats on a play in and play out basis,

Which is really a nothing-comment considering Watt was doubled majority of the time as well.

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and he will have more sacks than prime Watt

Possibly. Likely less tackles, TFL, PDs, QB hits. But we have to see on all of that.

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all from a more disruptive position being on the interior line. That is why I think he is better than Prime Watt.

Watt played mostly 5 and 3 tech, Donald mostly a 3. Watt has primarily been an interior player. I mean, he’s even playing under Watt’s old DC. 

[childofpudding]

4 hours ago, jaa1025 said:

We can agree to disagree. Shula's offense would have been great and pretty common place in todays NFL. This gave Marino a huge advantage statistically speaking. Plus, Miami didn't have a running game so he was leaned on way more than other QB's in that era. The reason more QB's have better ratings and there has been an uptick in scoring has everything to do with more offenses being more aggressive and passing more....just like 1984 Miami Dolphins for example. 

Marino's passer rating in 1984 was 108.9, which was 43% higher than the average of 76.1. Mahomes' passer rating this year is 118.1, which is 25% higher than the average of 94.4.

Marino threw for 318 yards/game in 1984, which was 54% higher than the average of 206. Mahomes has thrown for 272 yards per game this year, which is 11% higher than the average of 246.

Marino's season was far more dominant in terms of the competition with other QBs, both in terms of volume and efficiency.

 

[Buckweath]

2 hours ago, El ramster said:

Watch the tape. They’re holding him. This ain’t like a TE or RB chip. These are 2 fat cows. Which makes it way more impressive.. 

 

and the scrub who used PFF stats. Donald has the highest grades ever in there.. 

Lol can't believe how clueless you Rams fans are. Saying Donald is better than prime Watt and persisting… now I've seen it all.

[El Ramster]

2 minutes ago, Buckweath said:

Lol can't believe how clueless you Rams fans are. Saying Donald is better than prime Watt and persisting… now I've seen it all.

Clueless? Bro you don’t even have a team the hell. Acting like a scholar, you act like you break down film. Your PFF Rating got debunked ASAP, it’s been donald whose been graded much higher than Watt. At least, use the data right. 

[game3525]

6 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

Marino's passer rating in 1984 was 108.9, which was 43% higher than the average of 76.1. Mahomes' passer rating this year is 118.1, which is 25% higher than the average of 94.4.

Marino threw for 318 yards/game in 1984, which was 54% higher than the average of 206. Mahomes has thrown for 272 yards per game this year, which is 11% higher than the average of 246.

Marino's season was far more dominant in terms of the competition with other QBs, both in terms of volume and efficiency.

 

Yup.

Marino's ANY/A was also a full point higher then the next QB (8.9 to Montana's 7.9). Meanwhile, Mahomes is barely in front of Brees right now  (9.28 to 9.18). Plus when you add the fact that Brees passer rating is still about five points higher, it is hard to say Mahomes is dominating the competition like Marino did in 1984. 

[childofpudding]

4 hours ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

How is this related to efficiency stats being dramatically up from 84'? Again, if anything, passing in huge volumes usually makes you LESS efficient, not more. 

This is incorrect. I just looked at the top 900 seasons by passing yards, and there is actually a small positive correlation coefficient of 0.21 between number of pass attempts and passer rating.

[BayRaider]

Donald won’t get MVP but he might unanimously win DPOY. Think only JJ Watt and Lawrence Taylor have done such a thing but not 100% on that.

[Buckweath]

9 minutes ago, El ramster said:

Clueless? Bro you don’t even have a team the hell. Acting like a scholar, you act like you break down film. Your PFF Rating got debunked ASAP, it’s been donald whose been graded much higher than Watt. At least, use the data right. 

Debunked? Why don't you look it up by yourself instead of searching for what you actually want to see?

You are probably looking at passrushing grades if you ever saw somewhere that Donald has been rated higher.

 

I don't think you understand how good Watt was around 2012-2014. The guy was a whole defense unit by himself.

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

18 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

This is incorrect. I just looked at the top 900 seasons by passing yards, and there is actually a small positive correlation coefficient of 0.21 between number of pass attempts and passer rating.

Of the top 30 most efficient seasons ever, only 2 of them are 600+ attempts. Achieving a very high passer rating is harder at high volumes. 

0.21 is a very weak correlation so I don't see how this is supposed to disprove anything. 

I never claimed it was a big difference either, he claimed players are more efficient because they throw more, but there really isn't any reason to believe such a thing, and if anything they should be slightly less efficient for passing more. 

[El Ramster]

1 minute ago, Buckweath said:

Debunked? Why don't you look it up by yourself instead of searching for what you actually want to see?

You are probably looking at passrushing grades if you ever saw somewhere that Donald has been rated higher.

 

I don't think you understand how good Watt was around 2012-2014. The guy was a whole defense unit by himself.

No, it’s you whose clueless... They re formated their grading system.. 

[blizofoz45]

5 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

No. You don't get to use that excuse. I can accept that the MVP award will always go to a QB because of their importance and impact on a team. Since that is the case, you do not get to say things like this. When RB's, WR's, Defensive players start winning the MVP award, then you can make the comment "Well he can't do everything", but until that day comes, this goes out the window.

What the heck are you going on about?  Did you not notice how awful the Chiefs defense was yesterday?  I'd quote myself but that would be redundant.

 

[childofpudding]

33 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said:

Of the top 30 most efficient seasons ever, only 2 of them are 600+ attempts. Achieving a very high passer rating is harder at high volumes. 

0.21 is a very weak correlation so I don't see how this is supposed to disprove anything. 

I never claimed it was a big difference either, he claimed players are more efficient because they throw more, but there really isn't any reason to believe such a thing, and if anything they should be slightly less efficient for passing more. 

?? It's a large sample size showing a positive correlation coefficient, so your statement that "passing in huge volumes usually makes you LESS efficient" was incorrect. That's all. No big deal.

[Jlowe22]

1 hour ago, childofpudding said:

Marino's passer rating in 1984 was 108.9, which was 43% higher than the average of 76.1. Mahomes' passer rating this year is 118.1, which is 25% higher than the average of 94.4.

Marino threw for 318 yards/game in 1984, which was 54% higher than the average of 206. Mahomes has thrown for 272 yards per game this year, which is 11% higher than the average of 246.

Marino's season was far more dominant in terms of the competition with other QBs, both in terms of volume and efficiency.

 

I'd be curious to know what the average number of pass attempts was in 1984 compared to 2018.  Everybody runs passing offenses these days.  

Rules make it easier to pass now, but it also makes more teams do it, or at least encourages them to do it.

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

47 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

?? It's a large sample size showing a positive correlation coefficient, so your statement that "passing in huge volumes usually makes you LESS efficient" was incorrect. That's all. No big deal.

It's an irrelevant correlation. 0.21 is TINY. Almost none of the highest passer rating seasons have a high amount of passing attempts. You're incorrect. 

Oh, and have you ever heard that correlation /=/ causation? Better QB's simply throw the ball more, because ya know, they are good and would benefit from throwing more as opposed to running that play or whatever the case may be. 

[C0LTSFAN4L1F3]

36 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

I'd be curious to know what the average number of pass attempts was in 1984 compared to 2018.  Everybody runs passing offenses these days.  

Rules make it easier to pass now, but it also makes more teams do it, or at least encourages them to do it.

32 attempts/game in 84' and 34.9 attempts/game in 18'. 

It is much, MUCH, easier to pass than ever before. Like I said, Marino was 33 points above the average in 84' where as Mahomes is only at 24 points above the average.