3rivers Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 4 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said: I mean there is a peak to how many TDs and yards you can rack up in 60 minutes, and I don't think anybody would argue Marino was on a different level than Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, all guys playing in this pass happy era (and only the latter 3 for this particular pass happy year), so no reason to expect he'd outpace them by some notable margin. I just view Marino and that offense as being ahead of it's time. Same way I would consider a guy like Don Hutson simply ahead of his time, but not for a minute do I think he would come in and out pace his peers at a similar rate as he did (even if you grew him up in this era with the same training, gloves, etc.). I am fairly confident we will never see another 2nd year QB season like Marino's (in the sense of rewriting the record books), as all of those single season marks he set that have since been broken have only improved little by little as time goes on. No sudden leaps in the TD record.... but what Mahomes is doing is definitely the closest we've seen, and as close as we'll probably ever get. agree with your comment in that there is only so much a QB can accomplish in 60 minutes. Manning had a few years that were out there, and right now Mahomes is getting near that. The QB has to stay healthy and then even the weather has to be decent because if a few games are lost there the stats fall. I don't think WR's had the gloves back then and stick em was banned. I don't really like the pass happy league but always thought Marino was exceptional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 7 hours ago, Jakuvious said: On the prospect of Donald winning it, I just don't see how you can give a player MVP when the team they're on isn't even above average on their side of the ball. He's absolutely DPOTY, but that just doesn't mesh with MVP to me. If he was to get 25 sacks 12 FF and a few TD's and help his team win a few crucial games, it could help. In 86 OLB Taylor won it and in 82 a placekicker Mosely won it. Now it's a QB award though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 Lefkoe Destroys Brees case for MVP and every stat backs up Mahomey. Brees as a passer falters compared to Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, El ramster said: Lefkoe Destroys Brees case for MVP and every stat backs up Mahomey. Brees as a passer falters compared to Mahomes. See how is talking about things on a game-by-game basis? When I did anything other than look at the season stats and just make a deduction like that, I was chastised for it and called a homer. You have to look deeper than just the season stats and calling it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 1 hour ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said: See how is talking about things on a game-by-game basis? When I did anything other than look at the season stats and just make a deduction like that, I was chastised for it and called a homer. You have to look deeper than just the season stats and calling it a day. Quit yer crying dude. Mahomes actually leads Brees in several QB stats this year, including passer rating and DVOA. See http://pfref.com/tiny/8Yl30 and https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb. So this isn't really analogous. What you did was completely dismiss all QB stats, except for TOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 46 minutes ago, childofpudding said: Quit yer crying dude. Mahomes actually leads Brees in several QB stats this year, including passer rating and DVOA. See http://pfref.com/tiny/8Yl30 and https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb. So this isn't really analogous. What you did was completely dismiss all QB stats, except for TOs. I didn't dismiss ANY stats let alone QB stats. Like the millionth time you mischaracterized my argument. I don't see how this is supposed to be a counterpoint, because the guy in the video breaks down specific games and formed a compelling argument from it. I commented that I also had been breaking things down in a game-by-game manner and I got chastised for not literally just using season stats like everyone else. As the video shows, things need to be considered in individual games not just glossing over the season. .....Then you post season stats as if that is in ANY WAY relevant? If anything it proves that you are dead set on a surface level discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 4 hours ago, 3rivers said: If he was to get 25 sacks 12 FF and a few TD's and help his team win a few crucial games, it could help. In 86 OLB Taylor won it and in 82 a placekicker Mosely won it. Now it's a QB award though. The Giants were a top 5 defense in 1986 though and 1982 was the strike year (and Moseley winning it was a complete joke anyway). This year has been a strong year for candidates and like Jak points out, it is hard to give Donald the MVP when the defense as entire unit is not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, game3525 said: The Giants were a top 5 defense in 1986 though and 1982 was the strike year (and Moseley winning it was a complete joke anyway). This year has been a strong year for candidates and like Jak points out, it is hard to give Donald the MVP when the defense as entire unit is not very good. Defence is not what it used to be that's for sure. They should name the award best QB or something, and leave the MVP as an old relic from the past. NO way Donald gets it, unless the QB's somehow fail simultaneously and Donald gets all the stats. The rams D never became elite like many thought it would. AB is going to have his best year by the looks of it and isn't in the conversation since the beginning was shaky . I am saying Brees, Mahomes , flip a coin. Not in detroit either in case you happen to be a former ref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
game3525 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, 3rivers said: Defence is not what it used to be that's for sure. They should name the award best QB or something, and leave the MVP as an old relic from the past. NO way Donald gets it, unless the QB's somehow fail simultaneously and Donald gets all the stats. The rams D never became elite like many thought it would. AB is going to have his best year by the looks of it and isn't in the conversation since the beginning was shaky . I am saying Brees, Mahomes , flip a coin. Not in detroit either in case you happen to be a former ref Yeah, give QB's a CY young award or just change the name of MVP to the most outstanding player award. As for AB, his best chance was last year. It was a weak year in terms of candidates, Brady played well, but it was really just another ho-hum year by his standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, game3525 said: Yeah, give QB's a CY young award or just change the name of MVP to the most outstanding player award. As for AB, his best chance was last year. It was a weak year in terms of candidates, Brady played well, but it was really just another ho-hum year by his standards. the league papers QB's so for me the award is meaningless. The could have an award for every position and that would pique the interest of fans. Best CB, OLB, MLB, S etc. The defenders need to get some recognition to help with the high scores they have to tolerate now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 After seeing this I don’t know how MVP can go to anybody but Mahomes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 4, 2018 Share Posted December 4, 2018 5 hours ago, 3rivers said: If he was to get 25 sacks 12 FF and a few TD's and help his team win a few crucial games, it could help. In 86 OLB Taylor won it and in 82 a placekicker Mosely won it. Now it's a QB award though. To be clear, I do think a defender can win it. That wasn't really my point. It's that I don't think a defender from a not great defense should. You wouldn't give a QB leading the 18th best offense MVP. I don't see why you would a defender on the 18th best defense. He's the best defender in football, but I don't think you can be the most valuable player when the unit you're on isn't very good. Like, when LT won it, the Giants had the second best defense in the league, in large part due to him. And it was really only second because the mid-80s Bears were insane. I kind of feel like people are just desperately trying to search for a Ram to put in the MVP conversation. Because it was Gurley first, then Goff, now Donald. When the reality is, they're just a good example of a team where one player isn't solely responsible enough for their success to justify the award. Their success is pretty well-distributed across a couple different areas. Donald, Goff, Gurley, the OL, and McVay. Moseley was just a weird thing. Moseley might actually be the best comparison for justifying Donald, since Moseley got the award largely due to the perception of his clutch kicks to close out games. But at the same time, I don't think you want to be using Moseley as justification for a player being in the MVP conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonChigurh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I take it Pat is the undisputed MVP leader at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 55 minutes ago, AntonChigurh said: I take it Pat is the undisputed MVP leader at this point. I would think so, but there are still people who think the ' Skins won the Alex Smith trade, so idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Mahommes has almost got it sealed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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