757-NINER Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 5 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: You are ready to proclaim Mullens as a viable back up already? Really? He had some okay moments, but he has gone up against two terrible teams and I didn't think he was all that good today. INTs aside, he was very inaccurate on the simplest throws and just can't throw a sideline pass to save his life. He doesn't have the arm strength and it hurts him big time. Do I want to see Bethard back under center? No, I still want to ride it out with Mullens but he definitely hasn't shown me yet that he can be a capable back up. The defenses will get stronger after the TB game and that's when we will really be able to see if he has a future as a back up or not. He's shown that he's capable of moving the team and not mucking up the joint. And he's done that with virtually no meaningful pratice reps outside if the past week.Yeah he missed some throws...name me a QB that doesn't. He also stood in there and delivered some very good throws on critical 3rd downs. He's still very young with alot of things he can improve on like his happy feet in the pocket and cleaning up his mechanics so he isn't late on those sideline-breaking routes. But there's enough there to see if he can improve with more reps/experience. His arm strength isn't a issue. Those sideline throws are more of a timing issue and reading body language. Those throws will improve as hopefully the game slows down for him and he gets accustomed to speed of live game action. He has plenty of arm strength to win in the NFL. That's the least of my worries with him. Allot of his issues right now are correctable just from a experience standpoint and training his eyes to see certain things against certain coverages. He missed some things because he seemed just a little ansty in the pocket, which should improve over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldman9er Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 6 hours ago, 757-NINER said: I understand the Saleh haters are in full effect but I can't judge him until we find him some real talent on the edge. Seems fair enough. I don't really revisit these games anymore, so I'd bet there are plenty of wisdom pearls I miss seeing in the heat of the live action. They clearly need a better plan for the outside pass rush. Marsh is my boy and has a nice burst around the edge (apparently nice sideline coverage too!), but he doesn't have the power/strength/counters to work back inside. Quote The fact that Mullens has proven he can be a capable back-up to Jimmy G is a bright spot for this season. I think the Beathard experiment is officially over. While I would still keep Mullens as QB2 next year, I'm not ready to completely write off CJB yet. See if he can rebound, if just in camp. Quote And Im ready to admit that I was completely wrong about Solomon Thomas. This guy is virtually invisible on the field. No impact whatsoever. Lynch will have to eat that pick and make sure it never happens again. To completely whiff on a #2 overall pick is a fireable offense but he's learning on the job just like Shanny so just have to hope he learns from it. I don't know enough of what's wrong with this situation. Is it his fit or lack of ability to do anything. Need to more closely watch, I guess. Quote We were in the game and had a chance to win with our 3rd string QB and a young defense missing a lot of starters and alot of of talent. Not a glass is half full kind of guy but I do see some light at the end of the tunnel when this year is said and done. There's enough going on with the team direction to make me smile. I would have been unaffected with a win or loss last night. Was a fun game either way. Jimmy G and Co. will come in and kick arse next year, with some nice new additions here and there. Go Niners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 On 11/7/2018 at 11:22 PM, J-ALL-DAY said: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/8916879-181/grant-cohn-midterm-report-card The great Grant Cohn ladies and gentleman. Why? Why do folks keep reading his publications? Especially on here? Help me understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, 757-NINER said: He's shown that he's capable of moving the team and not mucking up the joint. And he's done that with virtually no meaningful pratice reps outside if the past week.Yeah he missed some throws...name me a QB that doesn't. He also stood in there and delivered some very good throws on critical 3rd downs. He's still very young with alot of things he can improve on like his happy feet in the pocket and cleaning up his mechanics so he isn't late on those sideline-breaking routes. But there's enough there to see if he can improve with more reps/experience. His arm strength isn't a issue. Those sideline throws are more of a timing issue and reading body language. Those throws will improve as hopefully the game slows down for him and he gets accustomed to speed of live game action. He has plenty of arm strength to win in the NFL. That's the least of my worries with him. Allot of his issues right now are correctable just from a experience standpoint and training his eyes to see certain things against certain coverages. He missed some things because he seemed just a little ansty in the pocket, which should improve over time. Completely disagree about his lack of arm strength. Those sideline throws are not a timing issue, he just can't get it there. It also prevents the receiver from having a chance to make a play after the catch as they have to wait too long to get the ball. He made some nice throws but I saw nothing that tells me he is the future back up. Remember, he was also going up against two of the worst pass rushes in the game the last two weeks. Going to have to see him for another three or four games to really tell if he has a future on this team or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Completely disagree about his lack of arm strength. Those sideline throws are not a timing issue, he just can't get it there. It also prevents the receiver from having a chance to make a play after the catch as they have to wait too long to get the ball. He made some nice throws but I saw nothing that tells me he is the future back up. Remember, he was also going up against two of the worst pass rushes in the game the last two weeks. Going to have to see him for another three or four games to really tell if he has a future on this team or not. Argree to disagree. If you watch those throws again, he's late with his read. He was late to diagnose, set his feet and deliver the ball. On the tipped pass int in the first quarter, that was his second or third read I believe and he really didn't do a good job of resetting his feet on top of the throw being late. He kind of rushed it because he knew that timing wasn't quite there. All night it seemed that his timing was just a tick off with WRs/RBs. He just missed Breida on that wheel route down the sideline. Goodwin committed a cardinal sin on his tip int. You supposed to sit against zone coverage. He sat then starting to press and began moving right as Mullens delivered the ball. That was a costly int as we were moving the ball and seemed primed to score some points on that drive. Now I'm not saying we can't bring in a vet to compete with Mullens but he's shown me far more than I thought he was capable of and some good instincts and intangibles I believe he can build off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, 757-NINER said: Argree to disagree. If you watch those throws again, he's late with his read. He was late to diagnose, set his feet and deliver the ball. On the tipped pass int in the first quarter, that was his second or third read I believe and he really didn't do a good job of resetting his feet on top of the throw being late. He kind of rushed it because he knew that timing wasn't quite there. All night it seemed that his timing was just a tick off with WRs/RBs. He just missed Breida on that wheel route down the sideline. Goodwin committed a cardinal sin on his tip int. You supposed to sit against zone coverage. He sat then starting to press and began moving right as Mullens delivered the ball. That was a costly int as we were moving the ball and seemed primed to score some points on that drive. Now I'm not saying we can't bring in a vet to compete with Mullens but he's shown me far more than I thought he was capable of and some good instincts and intangibles I believe he can build off of. Hey, I'm all with giving Mullens a chance as I've seen enough of Beathard. But the pass to Bourne took forever to get there and there was another sideline pass that took too long to get there and prevented the WR from having the chance to pick up the first down. His screen passes were also far too inaccurate to have any success. What I do like about him is that he doesn't panic and will go through his progressions. Throws some nice passes in the middle of the field, especially on 3rd downs. But from both games, his sideline passes have suspect to put it lightly. Let's see how he looks after the bye week. Another favorable match up for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 3 hours ago, PapaShogun said: Why? Why do folks keep reading his publications? Especially on here? Help me understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: Sometimes you just got to click on the link to see what baffling thing he will say next. Part of his material is always solid and spot on, but then he takes it an extra mile and completely loses credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 The defense shat the bed again. The Giants have a bad OL, and we can't bring any pressure. It's sad. It just goes to show how terrible the Raiders are, they made us look good for a week. This is ridiculous. I kept looking for Pettis to do something. He's another disappointment. Maybe he's too subtle a route runner for back-ups like CJ and Mullens. Jimmy probably had a plan for him. Or Kyle had a plan for him that required Jimmy to pull off. You can't have a route runner who's more of a free stylist and a QB who hesitates to pull the trigger, and that's what we have in CJ and Nick (to be fair, that's probably true of any back-up QB in the league). Pettis hasn't adjusted his game to the QBs either. And is it a 9er thing, but no matter who the QB, coach or offense is, we can never pull off screen passes. We had one last week, but raiders. Last night, we had at least 4-5 screens that went for negative yards. Some of the penalties were ridiculous. I feel like the Sherman one wasn't really a PI. The Spoon one was borderline. I feel like Beckham sometimes grabs the CB's hands to make it look like it's the CB grabbing him, and it works. If Spoon turns around, there's probably no call. But again, we're a losing team. Winning teams get breaks go their way. Once we deserve good calls, we'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Sometimes you just got to click on the link to see what baffling thing he will say next. Part of his material is always solid and spot on, but then he takes it an extra mile and completely loses credibility. Ahhh yes, the Skip Bayless/Lavar Ball mantra. Being nutty equates to being interesting in the 21st century. I guess I forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: Ahhh yes, the Skip Bayless/Lavar Ball mantra. Being nutty equates to being interesting in the 21st century. I guess I forgot. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Wow. I think a few of us are far too quick with the 'disappointment' label. Pettis hasn't even had one full season. He is a rookie, BTW. Hasn't been given much chance to start either. Others are willing to give up on Thomas in his 2nd year (with what little snaps he has been given) yet give Armstead a pass with all his injury issues. Much too soon to judge, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 51 minutes ago, rudyZ said: The defense shat the bed again. The Giants have a bad OL, and we can't bring any pressure. It's sad. It just goes to show how terrible the Raiders are, they made us look good for a week. This is ridiculous. I kept looking for Pettis to do something. He's another disappointment. Maybe he's too subtle a route runner for back-ups like CJ and Mullens. Jimmy probably had a plan for him. Or Kyle had a plan for him that required Jimmy to pull off. You can't have a route runner who's more of a free stylist and a QB who hesitates to pull the trigger, and that's what we have in CJ and Nick (to be fair, that's probably true of any back-up QB in the league). Pettis hasn't adjusted his game to the QBs either. And is it a 9er thing, but no matter who the QB, coach or offense is, we can never pull off screen passes. We had one last week, but raiders. Last night, we had at least 4-5 screens that went for negative yards. Some of the penalties were ridiculous. I feel like the Sherman one wasn't really a PI. The Spoon one was borderline. I feel like Beckham sometimes grabs the CB's hands to make it look like it's the CB grabbing him, and it works. If Spoon turns around, there's probably no call. But again, we're a losing team. Winning teams get breaks go their way. Once we deserve good calls, we'll take it. This was the first game Pettis has gotten extended action in. He simply isn't going to look great with Mullens or CJ, same with Goodwin. Those QBs just aren't good enough to fit it in tight spots nor make the types of throws necessary for both WRs to thrive in. Like for example that pass at the end of the 2nd quarter. Pettis had a clear step on the defender but Mullens throws it behind him. You put it a yard ahead and that may be a TD. That is a throw Jimmy G can make but the other two can't. Notice where majority of Mullens throws come from. In the 7-10 yard range in the middle of the field. He made a few good throws a bit further than that in both games, but majority of the time that's all what you will get from him. He completed zero sideline throws against Oakland and completed maybe two yesterday that were pretty damn awful late throws. But I'm just glad he finally got some time with Garcon being out. The more he plays the more we will get to see from his skill set. I wouldn't be running as many WR screens to him though. At least not without Garcon being one of the blockers. Another good wrinkle I saw was Pettis working in the slot quite a bit. He is almost impossible to cover when you give him the option to go both ways. Hard to even be upset at him for the prior weeks as he was barely playing 7-9 snaps a game since he returned from his injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 13, 2018 Author Share Posted November 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said: Others are willing to give up on Thomas in his 2nd year (with what little snaps he has been given) yet give Armstead a pass with all his injury issues. This one is actually simple enough. Armstead's problem has never been his play, it's always been injury related. He's not a pass rusher, but he's been fairly solid in his role since he was a rookie. He's better as a 3-4 end then in our scheme, but overall he is a competent player and if you plug him as the 4-3 SDE on early downs, this is fine. Right now, if you're not going to play Thomas on the interior, this is his best fit as well, and they overlap too much. Thomas could still yield something interesting in trade value as I noted earlier, Armstead, quite frankly, doesn't despite what is probably superior play because nobody wants him for 8.5 million on an option year, whereas Thomas has 2 more cheap years left on a rookie deal. Nobody is giving Armstead a pass (least of all me, who has been one of his most vocal critics since being drafted), but from what I see, he's simply a better player at what he does, and what they both do (in the way we utilize them) is largely the same. Thomas isn't even showing what Armstead is showing. The times he's flashed, it's always been on the interior, and that's still rare enough, but if you're not going to play him there, then what are you doing? If we are not going to utilize him in the manner that he's best for, then there is no point. He holds no value for us outside of a rotational piece / depth. And honestly, his play has just been bad for the most part. He's invisible out there. You say that the lack of snaps is a problem, but he has similar snap counts to most of the line. He's had more snaps than Ronald Blair, yet who are you seeing make more plays? It's not Thomas. Same for Sheldon Day. Thomas is on the field for 20% more of the snaps, yet I can far more vividly remember Day doing more things than I can Thomas, even on the interior. So quite frankly, the overall snaps are not a problem. Other players are flashing quite more in fewer snaps than Thomas is. He's simply not taking advantage of the plays he's on the field at all (and lets be real, it's not like Blair and Day flash a ton as it is, so the fact that he can't even match that is majorly disconcerting) When there is a complete lack of progression in year 2, and he hasn't shown anything, I don't think that is too early to start calling a spade a spade. People are reticent to admit that he's a bust given the high overall selection and the talent that he showed in college. But lets remember, it's not like he lit the college world on fire either. What most people think of when he was in college was a single game where he terrorized UNC and then his athletic testing numbers. If you go back to before that bowl game, he wasn't viewed as a likely top three pick. A first round prospect, sure, but not a top 3 guy. You seldom see guys suck for two solid years and then suddenly become beastly or anything. We did this for years with Tank Carradine as well. So given the complete lack of growth on his part, our refusal to use him in the manner he is best suited for, am I willing to see if I can make something work in the trade market? Absolutely. Do I think we could get more value from someone like Mike Williams (who I didn't even like coming out) in a hypothetical trade scenario? Absolutely. Same for Conley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 I would like quality safety play. That would be nice (and also possible - I'm convinced that edge pass rushers do not exist except in myth). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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