How much longer will the Patriots be the Patriots?

[megatechpc]

21 hours ago, lancerman said:

Sure. The 2013 team was terrible in regards receiving talent. Gronk was out the entire year, Hernandez was arrested and Welker was released. The three primary WR targets from 2010-2012 were all absent that season. Amendola also missed games. Edelman was literally the only quality WR that season and even then it was really just the early stages of him and Brady hooking up and it developed more over the next 3 years. We were pretty much screwed with guys like Thomkins and Dobson getting many meaningful snaps and being relied on as major targets. 

Our primary running back was Ridley. He got benched because he kept fumbling. He was largely a disappointment and I believe that was his last year with the team. Blount later came on as a possible running back, but again like Edelman that was more the discovery phase of his career and he was not a factor most of the season. 

We also lost Vollmer on the offensive line to injury. 

That's JUST the offensive side of the ball. On defense, the defensive line was damaged when our best player on that unit in Wilfork, who was a team leader, got injured. Our premier LB in Mayo got injured, if that wasn't bad enough Spikes was also hurt that year. Only our secondary didn't have injuries, but even so, Talib and McCourty were the only bright spots there, our secondary really took off the next year. Oh and Talib got injured in the AFCCG.

This was a team devoid of talent. On top of that, despite having a strong record overall, most wins were like literally end of game wins that were within a one score margin. That team easily could have had a losing record without a lot of luck and a lot of Brady pulling off magic tricks.

This Patriots team is still good. They have a quality WR corp with Gronk/Edelman/Gordon/Hogan, a quality RB Michel and White's been a stud in both the run and pass game (also Patterson is showing flashes there). The line is about as good as it's ever been. Gilore is the best corner we've had since Revis. We have been generating more pressure than last year. 

The big problem with the Patriots this year has honestly been it's arguably been some of the sloppiest execution with way too many communication errors. Deflected balls going for interceptions, horrible commication lapses on big plays against the Chiefs and Bears. Our defense always takes awhile to turn on. This year was no different. I firmly actually think we played pretty well against one of the best offenses in the league until two communication errors, a fumble, and a special teams runback. This was the first year the offense didn't come out hot out the gate. Michel took a few games to get going. The WR corp was also an issue until we got Gordon and then Edelman back. That gave us two extra threats that demanded coverage, made Gronk more of a mismatch, and put guys like Hogan away from #1 and #2 corners.

Ok, that's a litany of supposed deficiencies on offense in 2013 but they were still a top-10 offense that year, no?  I mean, to me basically every Pats team for the last 8 years or so has largely been the same thing; a few pretty good players, role-players, reclamation projects BB found around the league, and of course Brady doing Brady stuff.  This year is really no different, with their best WR being "pretty good" (Edelman), several guys like Hogan, White, and Patterson being "role-players", and Josh Gordon slotting in as the "reclamation project".  I don't really see the talent level being any better this year than in 2013 tbh (sure Gronk was out due to injury but that's like every season and he was still on the roster).

[megatechpc]

15 hours ago, SBLIII said:

while I don't entirely disagree with Danger, it's certainly a thing to keep in mind. Gronk certainly isn't the same anymore and also injured, in and out of the line-up, Michel has missed about 4 games, Gordon has missed about 4 games, Edelman has missed 4 games. That's 4 out of your top 5 weapons not consistently on the field so far this season. A major reason. 98 passer rating is actually pretty decent for that. 

Well, he is Tom Brady after all.  I mean, I don't think its possible for him to have a sub-90 passer rating at this point.  At least until father time finally does catch up to him (which I still maintain is absolutely imminent, despite his miraculous ability to stave off old age to this point).  The fact is he is widely considered the greatest of all time (I maintain its actually still Joe Montana but totally understand the valid reasons why most consider him the GOAT now) so the expectation should be that he will have success no matter who he is throwing to, especially with the other part of the equation being BB and his innate ability to fundamentally understand the pieces he DOES have and exactly how to utilize them properly better than any other HC in history.

[Soko]

7 minutes ago, megatechpc said:

Ok, that's a litany of supposed deficiencies on offense in 2013 but they were still a top-10 offense that year, no?  I mean, to me basically every Pats team for the last 8 years or so has largely been the same thing; a few pretty good players, role-players, reclamation projects BB found around the league, and of course Brady doing Brady stuff.  This year is really no different, with their best WR being "pretty good" (Edelman), several guys like Hogan, White, and Patterson being "role-players", and Josh Gordon slotting in as the "reclamation project".  I don't really see the talent level being any better this year than in 2013 tbh (sure Gronk was out due to injury but that's like every season and he was still on the roster).

So Edelman, Aaron Dobson, (not on a team), Kenbrell Thompkins (not on a team), and Michael Hoomanawanui is somehow equal in talent to Edelman, Gordon, Hogan, and Gronk? Because they fit some sort of arbitrary archetypes you just made up? 

You also have Sony outplaying Ridley, White outplaying Vereen, and the offensive line being volumes better. 

This year’s team is light years more talented than that 2013 team was on offense. That was one of Brady’s worst supporting casts.

 

[megatechpc]

14 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

So Edelman, Aaron Dobson, (not on a team), Kenbrell Thompkins (not on a team), and Michael Hoomanawanui is somehow equal in talent to Edelman, Gordon, Hogan, and Gronk? Because they fit some sort of arbitrary archetypes you just made up? 

You also have Sony outplaying Ridley, White outplaying Vereen, and the offensive line being volumes better. 

This year’s team is light years more talented than that 2013 team was on offense. That was one of Brady’s worst supporting casts.

 

And yet they are performing virtually identically to the 2013 team in every major category so far this year.  And that's even with Brady himself playing a lot better than he did in 2013.  I don't care what "names" you have on the roster, the fact of the matter is that this team in 2018 is achieving nearly identical RESULTS to a 2013 squad you somehow deem "light years" less talented.

Edited November 9, 2018 by megatechpc

[I <3 Faulk]

I'm pretty sure the sky is falling in New England every year by week 3 at this point, so week 3 next year?

[Chargers]

22 hours ago, Plat2 said:

My guess is after the 2019-2020 season TB retires...then they wont be as dominant and such a lock for the SB anymore, but they will still be good under BB.

You don't think they'll move up in 1st round to grab a QB? If BB retires I think McDaniels with a QB of his choosing can probably be a consistent playoff team. But you're right they aren't making 8 SB trips without Brady/BB.

[I <3 Faulk]

1 minute ago, Classic said:

You don't think they'll move up in 1st round to grab a QB? If BB retires I think McDaniels with a QB of his choosing can probably be a consistent playoff team. But you're right they aren't making 8 SB trips without Brady/BB.

As long as McDaniels doesn't draft another Tebow esc qb

[Soko]

7 minutes ago, megatechpc said:

And yet they are performing virtually identically to the 2013 team in every major category so far this year.  And that's even with Brady himself playing a lot better than he did in 2013.  I don't care what "names" you have on the roster, the fact of the matter is that this team in 2018 is achieving nearly identical RESULTS to a 2013 squad you somehow deem "light years" less talented.

Are you implying that teams that have some similar statistics, must then be similar in talent? 

And even if that were the case - which it isn’t  - you’re still wrong. 3rd down conversion percentage? Up. Yards per game? Up. Yards per attempt? Up. TD percentage? Up. Scoring percentage? Up. Points per game? Up. Brady passer rating? Up. Sack percentage? Down.

You don’t know squat about that Pats team, so please, keep using the lazy analysis to justify that somehow these two teams are comparable.

 

[DistantRam]

On 07/11/2018 at 6:35 AM, megatechpc said:

Maybe they do win another SB this year 

Nah; they’re more likely to win it next year. 

What better way for the NFL to celebrate its centenary than by having its golden boy sign off with an unprecedented sixth Super Bowl ring and immediately announcing his retirement?

It’s written in the stars, I tells ya. 

[lancerman]

10 hours ago, megatechpc said:

Ok, that's a litany of supposed deficiencies on offense in 2013 but they were still a top-10 offense that year, no?  I mean, to me basically every Pats team for the last 8 years or so has largely been the same thing; a few pretty good players, role-players, reclamation projects BB found around the league, and of course Brady doing Brady stuff.  This year is really no different, with their best WR being "pretty good" (Edelman), several guys like Hogan, White, and Patterson being "role-players", and Josh Gordon slotting in as the "reclamation project".  I don't really see the talent level being any better this year than in 2013 tbh (sure Gronk was out due to injury but that's like every season and he was still on the roster).

Okay....

Edelman this year is a more complete player with better chemistry with Brady than 2013 just staring out Edelman

Gronk is better than no Gronk

Gordan is  better than every pass catcher on the 2013 team that was active. It’s not even a debate 

Hogan is light years ahead of Dobson and Thompkins

Dorsett is better than them to, to a lesser degree than Hogan

Michel is better than Ridley, Patterson’s looked better than Ridley ever looked tbh

and I’ll take James White over Vereen or any other hybrid players we had back then. 

Then this offensive line is one of the better ones 

 

[Hunter2_1]

On 08/11/2018 at 5:43 AM, megatechpc said:

I'm curious in what way you consider this Pats team "way better" than, say, the 2013 team?  

I dunno, I was definitely being a little tongue-in-cheek by positing that perhaps the Patriots are already not the Patriots anymore (considering the thread title), but let's not kid ourselves here; the Patriots would be a very average team (both this year and over the last 5+ years) if they didn't have Brady and Belichick.  

In a lot of ways. Better OL, better receiving options, an actual run game (when healthy), winning against harder teams at this point compared to 13 (we'd already played [and lost] to NYJ, played then again, BUF, TB, NO at home - we hadn't beat a tough team), we have far better talent in the secondary now, Gronk was injured, rookies on D.

Of course we'd be average if we didn't have the best coach of all time and probably the best QB of all time.....jesus.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Hunter2_1

[ChazStandard]

On 08/11/2018 at 1:40 PM, SBLIII said:

while I don't entirely disagree with Danger, it's certainly a thing to keep in mind. Gronk certainly isn't the same anymore and also injured, in and out of the line-up, Michel has missed about 4 games, Gordon has missed about 4 games, Edelman has missed 4 games. That's 4 out of your top 5 weapons not consistently on the field so far this season. A major reason. 98 passer rating is actually pretty decent for that. 

Plus, the Patriots have 11 dropped passes this year - above average, but not dreadful. But of those 11 drops FOUR were been tipped to defenders. But for that string of bad luck, his passer rating is something like 103 and this isn't even a conversation.

[CKS97]

Here's what I know about the Patriots- they are Lazerus. they seem to keep finding ways to rise when some declare their season/dynasty done.

[Chargers]

7 hours ago, DistantRam said:

Nah; they’re more likely to win it next year. 

What better way for the NFL to celebrate its centenary than by having its golden boy sign off with an unprecedented sixth Super Bowl ring and immediately announcing his retirement?

It’s written in the stars, I tells ya. 

*Puts on tinfoil hat*

Tom retires in 2019

Tom wins SB in 2018 and takes Patriots into tie with Steelers for most SBs in the NFL

Tom wins SB again 2019 over Jimmy G's 49ers and has 7 SB titles and becomes GOAT in U.S sports over likes of Jordan, Gretzky, *insert MLB GOAT*

*Throws tinfoil hat in trash*

Thank god that's never going to happen

[RaidersAreOne]

2 years max.