How much longer will the Patriots be the Patriots?

[lancerman]

52 minutes ago, Danger said:

Well one would think that if numbers across the board are changing that Brady's should increase as well. His numbers are slightly down in a year where things are looking better for passers than ever. He's still a good QB, but there is certainly reason to believe the decline might have started.

Brady started the season with Edelman out, Gordon wasn’t there, he lost Amendola, Matthews who was their big pick up got cut after injury, Britt also. It was literally Gronk (whose been declining this year), Hogan (who isn’t used to number one CB’s shadowing him), and Dorsey. It also took servers games for Michel to get in a groove for the run game. 

If you want a reason, that’s your reason. And even then as ChazStandard said if you keep all that and consider the INT’s that we’re largely not  in him via deflected balls, he’s still up there with the rest of them. 

9 games in and 5 games are over a 100 passer rating and only 2 are sub 90. On pace for over 30TD’s and 4000 yards.

[cddolphin]

17 hours ago, BayRaider said:

And then the Dolphins draft the next Tom Brady and the Bills and Jets suffer 40 years of no division titles. 

 

[childofpudding]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

Brady started the season with Edelman out, Gordon wasn’t there, he lost Amendola, Matthews who was their big pick up got cut after injury, Britt also. It was literally Gronk (whose been declining this year), Hogan (who isn’t used to number one CB’s shadowing him), and Dorsey. It also took servers games for Michel to get in a groove for the run game. 

If you want a reason, that’s your reason. And even then as ChazStandard said if you keep all that and consider the INT’s that we’re largely not  in him via deflected balls, he’s still up there with the rest of them. 

9 games in and 5 games are over a 100 passer rating and only 2 are sub 90. On pace for over 30TD’s and 4000 yards.

Gronk also hasn't played for two games so he didn't even have value as a decoy. Brady hasn't looked as sharp as he normally does at times - the game vs. the Lions was pathetic, for example. But considering his primary targets for much of the year, the fact that they're putting up 30ppg is pretty astounding. James White has been a lifesaver.

[megatechpc]

I'm curious in what way you consider this Pats team "way better" than, say, the 2013 team?  A quick perusal of the team stats from that year compared to this team looks eerily similar.  They are still a top-10 offense like they were in 2013 and they are still a bottom-10 defense this year, just as in 2013 (ranked 26th in 2013 and 24th so far this year). 

I dunno, I was definitely being a little tongue-in-cheek by positing that perhaps the Patriots are already not the Patriots anymore (considering the thread title), but let's not kid ourselves here; the Patriots would be a very average team (both this year and over the last 5+ years) if they didn't have Brady and Belichick.  Obviously they DO have both those guys and its the one reason why they consistently win games year after year, but let's not act like they are a world-beating TEAM overall like they were in 2007.  The organization, the culture, the greatness of Brady, etc are the reasons they always find a way to win despite the fact that most years they are far from the most talented team in the NFL overall.

[Plat2]

My guess is after the 2019-2020 season TB retires...then they wont be as dominant and such a lock for the SB anymore, but they will still be good under BB.

[lancerman]

1 hour ago, megatechpc said:

I'm curious in what way you consider this Pats team "way better" than, say, the 2013 team?  A quick perusal of the team stats from that year compared to this team looks eerily similar.  They are still a top-10 offense like they were in 2013 and they are still a bottom-10 defense this year, just as in 2013 (ranked 26th in 2013 and 24th so far this year). 

I dunno, I was definitely being a little tongue-in-cheek by positing that perhaps the Patriots are already not the Patriots anymore (considering the thread title), but let's not kid ourselves here; the Patriots would be a very average team (both this year and over the last 5+ years) if they didn't have Brady and Belichick.  Obviously they DO have both those guys and its the one reason why they consistently win games year after year, but let's not act like they are a world-beating TEAM overall like they were in 2007.  The organization, the culture, the greatness of Brady, etc are the reasons they always find a way to win despite the fact that most years they are far from the most talented team in the NFL overall.

Sure. The 2013 team was terrible in regards receiving talent. Gronk was out the entire year, Hernandez was arrested and Welker was released. The three primary WR targets from 2010-2012 were all absent that season. Amendola also missed games. Edelman was literally the only quality WR that season and even then it was really just the early stages of him and Brady hooking up and it developed more over the next 3 years. We were pretty much screwed with guys like Thomkins and Dobson getting many meaningful snaps and being relied on as major targets. 

Our primary running back was Ridley. He got benched because he kept fumbling. He was largely a disappointment and I believe that was his last year with the team. Blount later came on as a possible running back, but again like Edelman that was more the discovery phase of his career and he was not a factor most of the season. 

We also lost Vollmer on the offensive line to injury. 

That's JUST the offensive side of the ball. On defense, the defensive line was damaged when our best player on that unit in Wilfork, who was a team leader, got injured. Our premier LB in Mayo got injured, if that wasn't bad enough Spikes was also hurt that year. Only our secondary didn't have injuries, but even so, Talib and McCourty were the only bright spots there, our secondary really took off the next year. Oh and Talib got injured in the AFCCG.

This was a team devoid of talent. On top of that, despite having a strong record overall, most wins were like literally end of game wins that were within a one score margin. That team easily could have had a losing record without a lot of luck and a lot of Brady pulling off magic tricks.

This Patriots team is still good. They have a quality WR corp with Gronk/Edelman/Gordon/Hogan, a quality RB Michel and White's been a stud in both the run and pass game (also Patterson is showing flashes there). The line is about as good as it's ever been. Gilore is the best corner we've had since Revis. We have been generating more pressure than last year. 

The big problem with the Patriots this year has honestly been it's arguably been some of the sloppiest execution with way too many communication errors. Deflected balls going for interceptions, horrible commication lapses on big plays against the Chiefs and Bears. Our defense always takes awhile to turn on. This year was no different. I firmly actually think we played pretty well against one of the best offenses in the league until two communication errors, a fumble, and a special teams runback. This was the first year the offense didn't come out hot out the gate. Michel took a few games to get going. The WR corp was also an issue until we got Gordon and then Edelman back. That gave us two extra threats that demanded coverage, made Gronk more of a mismatch, and put guys like Hogan away from #1 and #2 corners.

[Buddyboy]

A glimpse into the near future after the dynasty.

Post Lambeau 1950 was a dark decade in GB before Lombardi. Post VL was 2 decades of decline.

Chuck Noll arrived in 1970 but post Bradshaw, 1980-90 was decline.

Bill Walsh arrived in SF 1979 and managed to add Young to the Montana years. Decline followed.

 

[Elky]

On 11/6/2018 at 6:00 PM, Master of Suspense said:

If anyone will be running that division the way the Pats have the last 20 years, it will be the Jets with Sam Darnold. 

Except Sam Darnold sucks.

[Buddyboy]

46 minutes ago, Elky said:

Except Sam Darnold sucks.

The wisdom of the internet.

[SBLIII]

22 hours ago, lancerman said:

Brady started the season with Edelman out, Gordon wasn’t there, he lost Amendola, Matthews who was their big pick up got cut after injury, Britt also. It was literally Gronk (whose been declining this year), Hogan (who isn’t used to number one CB’s shadowing him), and Dorsey. It also took servers games for Michel to get in a groove for the run game. 

If you want a reason, that’s your reason. And even then as ChazStandard said if you keep all that and consider the INT’s that we’re largely not  in him via deflected balls, he’s still up there with the rest of them. 

9 games in and 5 games are over a 100 passer rating and only 2 are sub 90. On pace for over 30TD’s and 4000 yards.

while I don't entirely disagree with Danger, it's certainly a thing to keep in mind. Gronk certainly isn't the same anymore and also injured, in and out of the line-up, Michel has missed about 4 games, Gordon has missed about 4 games, Edelman has missed 4 games. That's 4 out of your top 5 weapons not consistently on the field so far this season. A major reason. 98 passer rating is actually pretty decent for that. 

[childofpudding]

12 hours ago, megatechpc said:

I'm curious in what way you consider this Pats team "way better" than, say, the 2013 team?  A quick perusal of the team stats from that year compared to this team looks eerily similar.  They are still a top-10 offense like they were in 2013 and they are still a bottom-10 defense this year, just as in 2013 (ranked 26th in 2013 and 24th so far this year). 

I dunno, I was definitely being a little tongue-in-cheek by positing that perhaps the Patriots are already not the Patriots anymore (considering the thread title), but let's not kid ourselves here; the Patriots would be a very average team (both this year and over the last 5+ years) if they didn't have Brady and Belichick.  Obviously they DO have both those guys and its the one reason why they consistently win games year after year, but let's not act like they are a world-beating TEAM overall like they were in 2007.  The organization, the culture, the greatness of Brady, etc are the reasons they always find a way to win despite the fact that most years they are far from the most talented team in the NFL overall.

What stats are you using? Patriots are 11th in points against this season and 13th in defensive DVOA.

[SBLIII]

1 minute ago, childofpudding said:

What stats are you using? Patriots are 11th in points against this season and 13th in defensive DVOA.

I guess yards per game allowed which is not a good measurement. 

[Master of Suspense]

9 hours ago, Elky said:

Except Sam Darnold sucks.

Way too early to say for sure. 

[goldfishwars]

You guys are all forgetting we drafted Danny Etling this year. 

[VigilantZombie]

The team will look a lot different when BB and Brady retire.  I'm not saying "the sky is falling" but it's not going to be the same team with the same level of success imo.  They'll go through some growing pains, it's a team that has created a very good foundation that will allow them to remain competitive however.