You Are In Control. Who Replaces McCarthy?

[Mr Anonymous]

It's all a matter of if Murphy chooses to roll back the authority he granted himself and if he decides to do so quietly or publicly. I believe there's a good chance he does so publicly given the criticism he took in NFL circles. He can chalk the one year arrangement up to giving his young inexperienced GM a chance to settle in. He can declare that Gute has exceeded expectations and has earned the right to have full say and authority over the head coach. He'll never go so far as to make McCarthy the scapegoat for the temporary structure, but the change in heart will be easily picked apart by the media. The dots are there to be connected.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

Never thought much of Murphy. Don't think he has the chops to carry Bob Harlan's briefcase. If the team continues its slide this season, I'm hoping the Executive Board gives Murphy and MM a one way ticket out of town. Gute looks like he has the ability to build a Super Bowl team, if everybody gets out of his way. Let Gute hire his coach and start the building process.

[Mr Anonymous]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Never thought much of Murphy. Don't think he has the chops to carry Bob Harlan's briefcase. If the team continues its slide this season, I'm hoping the Executive Board gives Murphy and MM a one way ticket out of town. Gute looks like he has the ability to build a Super Bowl team, if everybody gets out of his way. Let Gute hire his coach and start the building process.

Even if his power grab is proven to be a temporary one that he cedes voluntarily and chalks up to being what he believed at the time to be the best way to deal with a dicey situation (keeping McCarthy happy), it shows a lot of weakness. He should not have given McCarthy that much sway over things. One year the guy is so important that you cow to his demands, the next year he's canned. That's quite a misread. I wouldn't shed a tear if Murphy moves on or is shown the door, but as long as he goes back to focusing on the business side only, I think he can do good by the franchise.

Murphy just needs to go back to being Bob Harlan and stop being Jerry Jones. Develop Titletown and build the coffers not the product on the field.

[CWood21]

6 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Yeah because it's horribly flawed when Murphy has the final say and not the GM. You can get emotional as you want about me pointing it out, but it's fact so deal with it. And its not a secret fact at that. Gute needs to test his powers in 2 ways come this offseason. 1) He needs to find out if he can fire the head coach without being overruled by Murphy. And 2) He needs to see if he'll have complete freedom to pick who he wants as a replacement.

Now if you're Brian Gutekunst, are you going to hire someone who wants to play a big role in player acquisition and set yourself up to remain accountable to multiple authorities? Or are you going to hire someone who clearly ranks behind you and therefor not seeking continuing scheduled weekly audience with the team president?

If Gutekunst is either overruled by Murphy on firing McCarthy or if Murphy tries to pick the next coach, Gute should run as fast and far away from this situation as he can. Many here excused the "keep McCarthy" mandate at the outset given the awkward transition. I don't think anyone here was on board with Murphy being the final decision maker forever. Gute firing McCarthy and replacing him with someone to coach the players he chooses is a clear break that needs to be made. 

The fact you can't even explain the power structure tells me you're not really clued into what's going on.  Gute has personnel decision, and McCarthy has coaching decision power.  The "split" of power was meant to give McCarthy a say in personnel decisions.  It was clear that TT wasn't very active in FA, which we had heard there were issues between McCarthy and Thompson throughout the years on that issue.  Murphy isn't the one making decisions.  Think of him as more of a mediator.

[CWood21]

3 hours ago, Mr Anonymous said:

Murphy just needs to go back to being Bob Harlan and stop being Jerry Jones. Develop Titletown and build the coffers not the product on the field.

Do you even have an iota of evidence that Murphy is as involved as Jerry Jones?  Yeah, I didn't think so.

[Leader]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

The fact you can't even explain the power structure tells me you're not really clued into what's going on.  Gute has personnel decision, and McCarthy has coaching decision power.  The "split" of power was meant to give McCarthy a say in personnel decisions.  It was clear that TT wasn't very active in FA, which we had heard there were issues between McCarthy and Thompson throughout the years on that issue.  Murphy isn't the one making decisions.  Think of him as more of a mediator.

Thank-you for that. Proves to me that sanity still exists.

[Pugger]

It would help if we could be a fly on the wall and really see/hear what is going on at 1265.  We can speculate all we want but we don't really know who is in charge of what.

[Mr Anonymous]

3 hours ago, Pugger said:

We can speculate all we want but we don't really know who is in charge of what.

Yes we do, it's been very clearly stated.

This place is something else. People say post links, I post links which clearly state Murphy's expanded role and his own statement that he planned to give the GM full authority before something changed his mind. Two outspoken posters with zero evidence of their own, in complete contradiction of public statements made by Murphy, come up with their own alternate reality and say I'm the one who is wrong.

Here's the truth of what's going on here at FF. There are a handful of posters here who dominate the narrative. I think it's obvious who those people are. They hammer their notions down the throats of people here and insinuate that they have inside information of what's going on in Green Bay. I know for fact that they don't because almost everything being said here is so far off the mark. When I first started getting vocal here it was because these people passing themselves off as "know-it-alls" were so clearly uninformed. Obviously, they didn't take too kindly to being upstaged and have been pushing back against everything I've shared. That's a shame because I am telling people here the truth. My profession bleeds into pro sports and I am fortunate to be able to work with people in the know. I do know more than what's available publicly. But what's disturbing though is that most everything I have shared on this site is public knowledge and I have posted links. The threat to these posters image that they have inside knowledge is so strong apparently that they want people to ignore public statements.

I have laid out very clearly what's going on in Green Bay. The fact that I have been spot on about what's going on there will be very apparent soon enough. When McCarthy is fired come January and Murphy soon after publicly rolls back his own role in football operations and finally grants Gutekunst full authority over the head coach, maybe people will stop punching a gift horse in the mouth.

[OneTwoSixFive]

4 hours ago, Pugger said:

It would help if we could be a fly on the wall and really see/hear what is going on at 1265.  We can speculate all we want but we don't really know who is in charge of what.

Stay out of my head !

[Mr. Fussnputz]

Sunday night's game will be a big measure of MM. If the Packers are well prepared and play hard to the end, win or lose, MM will have an argument to be back next year. If they come out looking unprepared and give up at any point during the game, Gute will have an argument to replace MM. Sure, if they lose, they could still go on a winning streak and finish 9-6-1. They might even make the playoffs at 9-6-1. But to me this game has the feel of a career maker/breaker for MM. They don't have to win, but they have to have maximum effort from beginning to end. Nobody expects a coach to win every game, but I think everybody should expect a coach to be able to get maximum effort in a game like this. 

One thing of interest in this discussion is there is no one on MM's current staff who could even be considered to replace him. I'm trying to remember who from MM's staff over his long career with the Packers went on to become a head coach. McAdoo and Philbin are the only ones I can remember, and they didn't work out. I adhere to the philosophy that anyone you hire should be capable of being promoted someday. If not, then they are mediocre and you will be stuck with them forever. If MM was any good at hiring coaches, he would have sent several on to become successful head coaches by now. Along with poor game management skills, I would add poor ability to hire quality assistant coaches as another MM weakness. 

One important quality needed in the next HC is the ability to identify and hire top notch assistants. 

[TheOnlyThing]

4 hours ago, CWood21 said:

 TT wasn't very active in FA, which we had heard there were issues between McCarthy and Thompson throughout the years on that issue.  

"Throughout the years" there were "issues between McCarthy and [the Packers' former GM]" regarding the former GM's lack of activity in free agency?

Who knew?

Reading this board, I was always under the impression that McCarthy was just as supportive of the former GM's refusal to add free agents as the former GM's adoring fans were.

 

[Keg Man]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Sunday night's game will be a big measure of MM. If the Packers are well prepared and play hard to the end, win or lose, MM will have an argument to be back next year. If they come out looking unprepared and give up at any point during the game, Gute will have an argument to replace MM. Sure, if they lose, they could still go on a winning streak and finish 9-6-1. They might even make the playoffs at 9-6-1. But to me this game has the feel of a career maker/breaker for MM. They don't have to win, but they have to have maximum effort from beginning to end. Nobody expects a coach to win every game, but I think everybody should expect a coach to be able to get maximum effort in a game like this. 

One thing of interest in this discussion is there is no one on MM's current staff who could even be considered to replace him. I'm trying to remember who from MM's staff over his long career with the Packers went on to become a head coach. McAdoo and Philbin are the only ones I can remember, and they didn't work out. I adhere to the philosophy that anyone you hire should be capable of being promoted someday. If not, then they are mediocre and you will be stuck with them forever. If MM was any good at hiring coaches, he would have sent several on to become successful head coaches by now. Along with poor game management skills, I would add poor ability to hire quality assistant coaches as another MM weakness. 

One important quality needed in the next HC is the ability to identify and hire top notch assistants. 

I agree with you should never hire anybody who you don't think can be promoted to your level or above,

 

BUT, it takes a very confident person to do that.

[OneTwoSixFive]

7 hours ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

One thing of interest in this discussion is there is no one on MM's current staff who could even be considered to replace him. I'm trying to remember who from MM's staff over his long career with the Packers went on to become a head coach. McAdoo and Philbin are the only ones I can remember, and they didn't work out. I adhere to the philosophy that anyone you hire should be capable of being promoted someday. If not, then they are mediocre and you will be stuck with them forever.

 

7 hours ago, Keg Man said:

I agree with you should never hire anybody who you don't think can be promoted to your level or above,

 

BUT, it takes a very confident person to do that.

Does this mean Pettine (who has clearly stated he never wants to be a head coach again) is mediocre and should never have been hired ?  My opinion is different. I applaud someone who knows what he wants to do, the level he wants to work at and is best suited to. Knowing your own mind, your limitations/preferences is a sign of maturity.

[incognito_man]

Here's another name to consider taking over for MM:

Ernest Capers

[Mr. Fussnputz]

1 hour ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

 

Does this mean Pettine (who has clearly stated he never wants to be a head coach again) is mediocre and should never have been hired ?  My opinion is different. I applaud someone who knows what he wants to do, the level he wants to work at and is best suited to. Knowing your own mind, your limitations/preferences is a sign of maturity.

Capable of being promoted is about potential and talent. If you hire someone who you think doesn't have the potential and talent to be promoted beyond the position you are hiring them for, that is a potential red flag. The best HR people I have been associated with always took that into consideration. On the other hand Pettine was promoted to HC. He decided he didn't like it. That's OK. He has the talent to be a head coach again, but he doesn't want it. You are right about finding your niche. Not everyone wants to climb, even if they have the talent. I don't think we're disagreeing here. We're just looking at different aspects of career development and hiring policy.