You Are In Control. Who Replaces McCarthy?

[Mr Anonymous]

1 minute ago, Gopher Trace said:

I'm guessing lots of people have nostalgia from our SuperBowl win with him, continuing to associate him with the good times.

I also imagine that some fans see a lot of themselves in this gelatinous, suburban dullard of a Head Coach and maybe even empathize with the idea of a power struggle between him and our smug, far-less-relatable primadonna of a QB.

Whatever, though. There will always be flat-earth types who get even the most obvious issues wrong, but I think the wind is blowing in the overall right direction. 

McCarthy isn't a bad guy or anything. He was simply allowed to stick around far too long. If Ted Thompson hadn't closed himself off from the world like a hermit, it wouldn't have progressed this far. But yes, the wind is blowing in the right direction. Many things need to go right. Gute has to have the chops. The right hire has to be made at head coach. Russ Ball has to work with Gute and not against him. At least the franchise won't be careening down hill anymore come January. They've dug themselves a hole. Their HOF QB needs to find himself again if they're going to dig out of it anytime soon.

[Gopher Trace]

Feast yer ears to this podcast episode from Deadspin ripping on Beav at 15:15 (they also ridicule that asinine SI article about "debunking myths about McCarthy and Rodgers"-nonsense) and, as a bonus to Harbaugh fanboys, skip ahead also to 40:00.

https://deadspin.com/enjoy-your-mike-mccarthy-bloopers-while-you-can-1830725948

Quotable:

"It's not mutually exclusive that [Rodgers] has a bad game and that his coach also ******* blows!"

"The problem here is the Hall of Fame Quarterback, not the large baby in a tracksuit in a headset that isn't attached to anything just looking upset </s>."

[Nick_gb]

15 minutes ago, Gopher Trace said:

Feast yer ears to this podcast episode from Deadspin ripping on Beav at 15:15 (they also ridicule that asinine SI article about "debunking myths about McCarthy and Rodgers"-nonsense) and, as a bonus to Harbaugh fanboys, skip ahead also to 40:00.

https://deadspin.com/enjoy-your-mike-mccarthy-bloopers-while-you-can-1830725948

Quotable:

"It's not mutually exclusive that [Rodgers] has a bad game and that his coach also ******* blows!"

"The problem here is the Hall of Fame Quarterback, not the large baby in a tracksuit in a headset that isn't attached to anything just looking upset </s>."

"Really anybody that's better than him, which is most coaches, it's basically just not Jeff Fisher. Like if you plugged a moderately inventive mind who's players don't hate him that team is at least two wins better."

 

[Packerraymond]

7 hours ago, incognito_man said:

This theory doesn't fit the timeline of reality. Philbin and Cignetti were hired on the same day.

There was no time to ask for his old job back. Nor would he have.

"I don't look backward" is literally what van pelt said man. 😂 I don't know how this could possibly be more clear.

The date of hire is irrelevant. The date that Mac made up his mind that AVP wasnt going to be the OC or QB coach matters.

And again, is AVP going to say "the Packers didn't want me anymore so here I am in Cincy." Is Mac going to take a parting shot at a former colleague? The only one not speaking media talk there and actual truthful words is Aaron.

[Leader]

Question - is this matter of AVP so critical that it warrants this degree of micro-surgery?
Is it being implied that this matter has bearing on where we are today as a team?
I mean - I guess liked the guy - hardly knew him - but certainly never realized he was the keystone to our entire operation.

If so - lets get him back!
"You wanna be an OC? Well how's about finally getting that position AND having your favorite QB to structure plays for!"
 

[Pugger]

1 minute ago, Leader said:

Question - is this matter of AVP so critical that it warrants this degree of micro-surgery?
Is it being implied that this matter has bearing on where we are today as a team?
I mean - I guess liked the guy - hardly knew him - but certainly never realized he was the keystone to our entire operation.

I do recall how unhappy Aaron was when AVP left.   Perhaps Aaron isn't meshing with his new position coach like he did with AVP?  And we also have to remember how unhappy he was when Jordy left like he did.  This might be what is bothering Rodgers more than any disconnect he has/had with McCarthy - not having 2 of people he felt close to and worked well with in that locker room.  Some here may scoff at this and/or declare Rodgers should get over it but I can understand Aaron's disappointment if my guess is correct.

[Leader]

26 minutes ago, Pugger said:

I do recall how unhappy Aaron was when AVP left.   Perhaps Aaron isn't meshing with his new position coach like he did with AVP?  And we also have to remember how unhappy he was when Jordy left like he did.  This might be what is bothering Rodgers more than any disconnect he has/had with McCarthy - not having 2 of people he felt close to and worked well with in that locker room.  Some here may scoff at this and/or declare Rodgers should get over it but I can understand Aaron's disappointment if my guess is correct.

Understood - and the little, itty-bitty-bit I know of the new QB coach hasnt impressed me - but I dont count. 

But seriously. We're not talking about the coach for some rookie or young QB. ARs been around for quite some time. He's much closer to the end than the beginning. VP was the velcro holding him together? Who knew!?!

People talk as if we're some perennial loser. A clueless organization thats been misfiring for years because of its organizational chart - and now here we are @ 4-6+1.

I disagree. Dont see it. Was TT on target with all his talent evaluations? No. Could he (possibly) have been more aggressive in the draft and/or secured some better talent for the team? Yes, I think so.

But AR being "unhappy" his QB coach is no longer around (?) when by all indications that coach played a major role in moving on? What? Are we seriously gonna try to connect that dot to AR throwing a football like its a Frisbee? Having the footwork of a ball room dancer? Throwing the ball everywhere but between the numbers on the front of his wide open WRs jersey?

Are we seriously going to conflate the VP matter into that? Sorry. I dont care enough about AR being "unhappy" for me to issue him a pass for playing like $hit - and - I'm the last guy to connect a guys on the field performance with his contract - but everybody else does - so, here I go: The guys the highest paid player in the game.

Play like it.

If this "unhappy" scenario is to be believed ::  get over it. You've got a job to do.

Switching over to an unrelated matter - or is it? I'm a LAL fan and the word on the street now is that Lebron isnt running the plays that coach Luke Walton calls. That Lebron's going rogue - in a effort to get Walton fired. Lebron's teammates? They've no clue whats going on because Lebrons winging it in the game.

Any of this sound vaguely familiar?

 

 

[Pugger]

29 minutes ago, Leader said:

Understood - and the little, itty-bitty-bit I know of the new QB coach hasnt impressed me - but I dont count. 

But seriously. We're not talking about the coach for some rookie or young QB. ARs been around for quite some time. He's much closer to the end than the beginning. VP was the velcro holding him together? Who knew!?!

People talk as if we're some perennial loser. A clueless organization thats been misfiring for years because of its organizational chart - and now here we are @ 4-6+1.

I disagree. Dont see it. Was TT on target with all his talent evaluations? No. Could he (possibly) have been more aggressive in the draft and/or secured some better talent for the team? Yes, I think so.

But AR being "unhappy" his QB coach is no longer around (?) when by all indications that coach played a major role in moving on? What? Are we seriously gonna try to connect that dot to AR throwing a football like its a Frisbee? Having the footwork of a ball room dancer? Throwing the ball everywhere but between the numbers on the front of his wide open WRs jersey?

Are we seriously going to conflate the VP matter into that? Sorry. I dont care enough about AR being "unhappy" for me to issue him a pass for playing like $hit - and - I'm the last guy to connect a guys on the field performance with his contract - but everybody else does - so, here I go: The guys the highest paid player in the game.

Play like it.

If this "unhappy" scenario is to be believed ::  get over it. You've got a job to do.

Switching over to an unrelated matter - or is it? I'm a LAL fan and the word on the street now is that Lebron isnt running the plays that coach Luke Walton calls. That Lebron's going rogue - in a effort to get Walton fired. Lebron's teammates? They've no clue whats going on because Lebrons winging it in the game.

Any of this sound vaguely familiar?

 

 

I knew someone would dismiss my conjecture out of hand because as a vet Rodgers shouldn't be unhappy with whomever is his coach.  "Come on Aaron!  You're making a fortune to play ball so get the hell over it.'"  If you are working with someone all the time that you don't mesh with and/or you don't agree with their philosophy you don't think that isn't going to affect your performance?   Do you get along with your boss?  If you don't can you tell me with a straight face that this rocky personal relationship isn't affecting your performance on the job?  These are humans playing football ya know.

Are you suggesting Rodgers is trying to get McCarthy canned?  

[Leader]

20 minutes ago, Pugger said:

I knew someone would dismiss my conjecture out of hand because as a vet Rodgers shouldn't be unhappy with whomever is his coach.  "Come on Aaron!  You're making a fortune to play ball so get the hell over it.'"  If you are working with someone all the time that you don't mesh with and/or you don't agree with their philosophy you don't think that isn't going to affect your performance?   Do you get along with your boss?  If you don't can you tell me with a straight face that this rocky personal relationship isn't affecting your performance on the job?  These are humans playing football ya know.

Are you suggesting Rodgers is trying to get McCarthy canned?  

I'm not dismissing your conjecture - I'm putting it into context.

Professional football - like many industries - is RIFE with change. Its happening all the time. At all levels. Up and down the roster and organizational flow charts. If AR's on the field performance is being affected by his "unhappiness" over Alex Van Pelt leaving the organization - there was more going on between the two than their professional relationship - and I'm not implying anybodies Gay - VP was the only "family" AR had left or something.

Do you know AR doesnt want to get MM canned? As I've mentioned in many posts now - its going on - and has been going on across the spectrum of sports for many years. Is quaint, "smallest NFL town" Green Bay and its players immune from whats going on in multiple sports - in multiple organizations?

[Pugger]

6 minutes ago, Leader said:

I'm not dismissing your conjecture - I'm putting it into context.

Professional football - like many industries - is RIFE with change. Its happening all the time. At all levels. Up and down the roster and organizational flow charts. If AR's on the field performance is being affected by his "unhappiness" over Alex Van Pelt leaving the organization - there was more going on between the two than their professional relationship - and I'm not implying anybodies Gay - VP was the only "family" AR had left or something.

Do you know AR doesnt want to get MM canned? As I've mentioned in many posts now - its going on - and has been going on across the spectrum of sports for many years. Is quaint, "smallest NFL town" Green Bay and its players immune from whats going on in multiple sports - in multiple organizations?

None of us knows for sure what is happening behind closed doors.  One thing about the Packers - they rarely air their dirty laundry.  I was just wondering - if Rodgers wasn't meshing with is position coach that might be one of the reasons why there is trouble up at 1265?  I'm sure it isn't the only reason.  When things go south there are usually a lot of little things contributing to it.  Unless we have a replacement in his stead like we did when we moved on from Favre I don't see Rodgers going anywhere so if a change has to be made it will be McCarthy and most of his staff leaving.  I do hope whomever Gute hires should Mac go will keep Pettine at DC.  I like what I'm seeing on that side of the ball so far.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

1 hour ago, Pugger said:

I do recall how unhappy Aaron was when AVP left.   Perhaps Aaron isn't meshing with his new position coach like he did with AVP?  And we also have to remember how unhappy he was when Jordy left like he did.  This might be what is bothering Rodgers more than any disconnect he has/had with McCarthy - not having 2 of people he felt close to and worked well with in that locker room.  Some here may scoff at this and/or declare Rodgers should get over it but I can understand Aaron's disappointment if my guess is correct.

I would guess that if one could get into Aaron Rodgers mind, he would have multiple grievances.  The one that I think would be highest is cutting Jordy Nelson, especially when they didn't replace him with a significant presence at wide receiver.  

The issue that I took away from the AVP situation was that McCarthy/Thompson didn't allow coaches under contract to interview for positions with other teams.  They required them to decide on an extension before they got to the last year of the contract, so in essence, they were pretty much required to let their contracts expire to move on.

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-often-deny-assistants-permission-to-interview-with-other-teams-ks87jo8-185390861.html/

I would guess that even if Rodgers wanted them to bring back AVP after he didn't draw any action as an OC candidate, AVP would probably have wanted to get out from under that contract structure.  He likely needs to do something else to advance because he wasn't likely to get much credit for the success of Aaron Rodgers.  Ironically, the result from this year might help him out.

[TheBitzMan]

5 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I would guess that if one could get into Aaron Rodgers mind, he would have multiple grievances.  The one that I think would be highest is cutting Jordy Nelson, especially when they didn't replace him with a significant presence at wide receiver.  

The issue that I took away from the AVP situation was that McCarthy/Thompson didn't allow coaches under contract to interview for positions with other teams.  They required them to decide on an extension before they got to the last year of the contract, so in essence, they were pretty much required to let their contracts expire to move on.

http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-often-deny-assistants-permission-to-interview-with-other-teams-ks87jo8-185390861.html/

I would guess that even if Rodgers wanted them to bring back AVP after he didn't draw any action as an OC candidate, AVP would probably have wanted to get out from under that contract structure.  He likely needs to do something else to advance because he wasn't likely to get much credit for the success of Aaron Rodgers.  Ironically, the result from this year might help him out.

He wasn't getting an OC job after the world just watched Hundley, a guy who him and MM groomed, completely stink it up. There is absolutely 0% chance Rodgers goes on a national radio program complaining about AVP not being retained if AVP didn't want to be retained. 

It's pretty clear that Rodgers valued that relationship and if you believe the sourcing in the article MM was upset that AVP had Rodgers' ear. This seems to me a power move by McCarthy that backfired. 

[Leader]

25 minutes ago, Pugger said:

None of us knows for sure what is happening behind closed doors.  One thing about the Packers - they rarely air their dirty laundry.  I was just wondering - if Rodgers wasn't meshing with is position coach that might be one of the reasons why there is trouble up at 1265?  I'm sure it isn't the only reason.  When things go south there are usually a lot of little things contributing to it.  Unless we have a replacement in his stead like we did when we moved on from Favre I don't see Rodgers going anywhere so if a change has to be made it will be McCarthy and most of his staff leaving.  I do hope whomever Gute hires should Mac go will keep Pettine at DC.  I like what I'm seeing on that side of the ball so far.

Agree. None of us know squat (in fact). We're all adjusting and arranging the tea leaves to fit our image of the universe around us.

I just dont elevate the QB coach to such a critical position of influence - especially with a veteran / accomplished QB of ARs type - that it should be causing ARs on the field performance, mechanics et al - for which I hold HIM responsible. 

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

21 minutes ago, TheBitzMan said:

He wasn't getting an OC job after the world just watched Hundley, a guy who him and MM groomed, completely stink it up. There is absolutely 0% chance Rodgers goes on a national radio program complaining about AVP not being retained if AVP didn't want to be retained. 

It's pretty clear that Rodgers valued that relationship and if you believe the sourcing in the article MM was upset that AVP had Rodgers' ear. This seems to me a power move by McCarthy that backfired. 

Maybe, maybe not.  Certainly part of his complaint was not being consulted on the change.

I think Pete Daugherty hits the nail on the head this morning:

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2018/11/29/dougherty-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers-marriage-has-run-its-course/2144453002/

Just about anything can be true right now given the number of reports that claim to know the issues.

They just need to make the change at this point.

[Howler]

5 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Maybe, maybe not.  Certainly part of his complaint was not being consulted on the change.

I think Pete Daugherty hits the nail on the head this morning:

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2018/11/29/dougherty-mike-mccarthy-aaron-rodgers-marriage-has-run-its-course/2144453002/

Just about anything can be true right now given the number of reports that claim to know the issues.

They just need to make the change at this point.

It stems back to that fateful day in Seattle and the rift never fully healed. Granted, Rodgers isn't without blame for eschewing an entire half of the field.