Broncos @ Bengals GDT

[thebestever6]

29 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

BTW one point lost in the Holland activation - it likely means that Walker’s weakness of not being quick twitch enough for EDGE and his slow development as a DE (he needed to add bulk) is bearing fruit.    It’s not too late for him to help yet but for a Rd2 pick this isn’t at all a good result as he’s been a regular on the inactive list each week.  

I’d suspect he’s a roster bubble guy next offseason unless he can really progress.   

We said the same thing about gotsis and he's faired well .

[Broncofan]

33 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

We said the same thing about gotsis and he's faired well .

Gotsis is a rotational run stuffer who plays 40 percent of the snaps in our D in Year 3, who isn’t a pass rush threat.     

If that’s a Day 3 pick / UDFA it’s a solid return.   As a Rd2 pick it’s an underwhelming result, to be kind.     It’s better than the specter of a failed career, but that’s a very low standard.  

Back to Walker, though - the bigger problem is that we knew his issues as a tweener fit.   At least in Gotsis’ case we could say he’s raw and needed time.  But like Gotsis for the draft capital you want a year 2 impact and at least a year 3 year full time starter.   Walker isn’t even a game day active - he’s been on the field for 1 game IIRC.   That’s....not good, not in week 13 of year 2.  

[bMiller031]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

BTW one point lost in the Holland activation - it likely means that Walker’s weakness of not being quick twitch enough for EDGE and his slow development as a DE (he needed to add bulk) is bearing fruit.    It’s not too late for him to help yet but for a Rd2 pick this isn’t at all a good result as he’s been a regular on the inactive list each week.  

I’d suspect he’s a roster bubble guy next offseason unless he can really progress.   

I feel for him. It's hard to imagine his career starting in a worse spot, fit-wise. Too big/not twitchy enough to play 3-4 EDGE - not enough size/strength to play 3-4 DE.

I imagine his career would've looked differently if he'd landed with a traditional 4-3 DE role from the start. 

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, bMiller031 said:

I feel for him. It's hard to imagine his career starting in a worse spot, fit-wise. Too big/not twitchy enough to play 3-4 EDGE - not enough size/strength to play 3-4 DE.

I imagine his career would've looked differently if he'd landed with a traditional 4-3 DE role from the start. 

Yeah absolutely.  The sad part is he could find success (not a star but at least a situational pass rusher) - but on another team that uses 4-3 as a base.   The thinking was that we were going to use more 4-3 but that hadn’t materialized.   Not being able to even dress this late in year 2 - not good at all.

None of which changes the fact the likelihood he fails with us is sky high.  At least we know Elway’s methodology behind these kind of picks has been scrapped.  

[champ11]

Walker was a horrid pick. Won't be surprised when he gets cut 2019 training camp. 

[Broncofan]

So AJ Johnson cleared waivers. I’d imagine he gets stashed on the PS.  

 

[BroncoBruin]

2 hours ago, champ11 said:

Walker was a horrid pick. Won't be surprised when he gets cut 2019 training camp. 

Yeah just a stupid pick and that's without the benefit of hindsight. He was so clearly not an NFL caliber guy. 

[BroncoBruin]

Being a 4-3 DE wouldn't have helped Walker and his glaring inability to turn a corner. He did one thing well: beat college guards one-on-one as a 3-Tech with a couple moves. 

[champ11]

16 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Yeah just a stupid pick and that's without the benefit of hindsight. He was so clearly not an NFL caliber guy. 

Yeah, Gotsis was kind of a bad pick, but still a much better kind of bad pick. Gotsis was a bit of a reach that had the skills and talent without the production. Walker was a reach that had the production without the talent. Just a brutal, brutal draft day. Set the franchise back a year, for sure. 

[AKRNA]

14 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Yeah, Gotsis was kind of a bad pick, but still a much better kind of bad pick. Gotsis was a bit of a reach that had the skills and talent without the production. Walker was a reach that had the production without the talent. Just a brutal, brutal draft day. Set the franchise back a year, for sure. 

Yup, Walker was an awful pick. Gotsis is a pretty good ballplayer.

[Broncofan]

51 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Yeah, Gotsis was kind of a bad pick, but still a much better kind of bad pick. Gotsis was a bit of a reach that had the skills and talent without the production. Walker was a reach that had the production without the talent. Just a brutal, brutal draft day. Set the franchise back a year, for sure. 

Yeah if it was a Day 3 or UDFA I don’t think there would be any criticism at all.   It’s just when Elway spent a Rd2 he literally removed almost all the potential profit, given the learning curve.    And it was such a reach.   I know Elway said 1 other team would have taken him before their next pick - but even if that’s true you let them.  The Gotsis type guys you don’t use Rd2 picks on, when you have guys with very similar ceilings but better floors.   Going all ceiling is great Day 3 - not so much Day 2 and definitely not Rd2 when actual skill players who have very similar ceilings are available. 

When you need to spend 2 years to develop a guy into rotational run stuffer that’s a win for a 5th rd pick - UDFA.    For Rd2 it’s just so meh a return.    But it’s also not a complete failure like the Sambrailos or Carlos Henderson’s of past Day 2’s.   So there’s that. 

Anyways back to the game - looks like Brock is out so we get Yiadom and Langley as 3rd - 4th CB.   Pass rush getting there will be crucial. 

 

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah if it was a Day 3 or UDFA I don’t think there would be any criticism at all.   It’s just when Elway spent a Rd2 he literally removed almost all the potential profit, given the learning curve.    

When you need to spend 2 years to get a rotational run stuffer that’s a win for a 5th rd pick - UDFA.    For Rd2 it’s just so meh a return.    But it’s also not a complete failure like the Sambrailos or Carlos Henderson’s of past Day 2’s.  

 

That draft also lacked a lot of depth and it was the last pick of the second round.  That draft was so bad the Bucs were willing to trade a bunch of picks to aquire a kicker in the second round who was also a bust. Not trying to make excuses just looking at things in context.

[Broncofan]

11 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

That draft also lacked a lot of depth and it was the last pick of the second round.  That draft was so bad the Bucs were willing to trade a bunch of picks to aquire a kicker in the second round who was also a bust. Not trying to make excuses just looking at things in context.

2016 wasn’t great overall for sure but look at the DL who went right after though - Ngakoue &  Malik Collins & Nassib.   And keep in mind the moment the pick was made it was “who is that”?   Which is totally fine when you are past the tier of good players.   But that was classic Elway reaching hard to get one of his man crush all-tool & projection but  little-to-no-actual-present-day-football-skill projects.

2016 wasn’t especially deep like 2017/18 but it wasn’t so shallow that pick could ever be justified that early.  

Anyways, it’s moot - like I said before I’m just glad the merhodology behind those reach picks appears to have been mercifully scrapped.

[Broncofan]

So CIN unlikely to have Cordy Glenn but Nick Vigil, AJ Green & Dre Kirkpatrick all off injury report.    

Our pass rush is definitely the biggest mismatch in this game with T Ogbuehi and Andre Smith as their starters and Driskel in his first start. 

 

 

 

 

[Scoundrel]

I assume even with Driskel Boyd will get to pick on Roby some.

Also Walker was not an nfl player due to lack of athleticism. Even in a 4-3 he wasn’t going to match anywhere near his college production. Like a poster already said he would win often inside in college against college lineman and in a 4-3 he could have limited success in pass situations there but against nfl lineman it wouldn’t be much. Shouldn’t have been drafted by us and should have definitely not been drafted by us in round 2. He was like the Scooby Wright of dlineman.