Random Raider Stuff

[Bitty 2.0]

On 7/18/2020 at 9:12 PM, jimkelly02 said:

Im all for having a competent backup QB but there were several players who could have been had for under 3.0as opposed to 9.125M.

if Carr went down for 2 games I’d be totally okay with dalton starting.

matiota impressed enough to get you to say “if we can fix”, “if he only ____”, “in a new scheme / different coaching”.

to heck with all this run around QB stuff, qb’s gotta be able to drop back and hit their targets reliably and Mariota can’t do that.  He’ll never be that guy.

”It gives Gruden a project”.... well maybe Gruden should just learn to golf or build ships in a bottle lol cuz we substain on paying Mariota 9.125M and Peterson 2.133M so Gruden can be coddled with his “projects”.  
 

again I don’t hate the moves we made... I’m not trying to be Mr. Negative but we did ignore some better values with Mariota, Heath, etc and now we don’t have the money to sign Clowney, for example.  It’s all about “opportunity cost”: what does this move prevent us from getting in the future.  
 

We also likely (key word is likely) could have negotiated Nassib down a bit.  It sounds like when we signed Trent Brown: we called him up with such a higher contract he couldn’t say no... 4yrs, 66M,,, but would he have taken 60M? Prolly.  Would Nassib have taken 4y, 22M not 25? Prolly.  We just need to negotiate better imo. 

They are following the New England way, make Mariota better and trading him.

[Humble_Beast]

2 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

I feel like Tim Brown gets lost when people discuss the all time great wideouts. In my eyes, he has a strong argument for 2nd best wideout of all time. Man played before it became a passing league. He never had a stud QB until he was old, or other stud WR2 (James Jett). Teams focused on him, yet he still couldn’t be stopped. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Humble_Beast

[NCOUGHMAN]

9 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I feel like Tim Brown gets lost when people discuss the all time great wideouts. In my eyes, he has a strong argument for 2nd best wideout of all time. Man played before it became a passing league. He never had a stud QB until he was old, or other stud WR2 (James Jett). Teams focused on him, yet he still couldn’t be stopped. 

Pretty sure my first 2 raiders jerseys were tim brown 

[drfrey13]

37 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

Maybe Dalton costs 4,5 not 3... whatever... point is we almost all Agree we jumped the gun....

which was the point I’ve always made.  Mariota and Heath Signings should have waited,,, I can understand Nassib.  

I was a fan of spending on a backup QB but not necessarily on MM.  Problem is that we need a particular type of QB to run Gruden's offense.  One of the main components to a successful QB, not Brad Johnson even though they won a Super Bowl, for this is the ability, willingness, understanding when to run.  That really limited our options.  Brady was probably the only option that did not run but still runs more than Carr.  MM has more ability than Driskel but I would have signed Driskel over MM because of what I saw on the field last year.  MM has more potential but I like how Driskel plays.  He is definitely a work in progress though.  Very similar to Fitz in that they do not come off the bench like they have been sitting there all year.  McGloin was another example of this.  When asked to come in the game they play to win instead of maintaining a lead.  I want a backup that will come in down 4 with a couple minutes left and at least try to drive the team down the field.  It is just a certain mentality I like to see.   I hate seeing a backup come in and hand the ball off 3 times in a row or not be able to control the jitters so they are throwing the ball ten feet over the receivers head.  

[drfrey13]

10 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Pretty sure my first 2 raiders jerseys were tim brown 

My first jersey was also.  I think his injury in 1989 was the reason he is not in the argument for GOAT along with the teams.  He had 725 yards as a rookie then tore up his knee when medicine had not reached the point that athletes came back to 100%.  He did not break 1000 yards until 1993.  That alone cost him 3000 yards in those years and probably more down the line from the loss of athletic ability.  Combined with the short comings of the players and coaches around him and who knows what he accomplishes.  I think if he ends up on the other side of the bay and Rice on the Raiders you could very easily be having the argument that Rice could have been as good as Brown.  Rice had Montana, Young, and Garcia so at minimum a pro bowl QB 13 out of 16 seasons as a 49er.  Brown had Wilson, Schroeder, Hostetler, George, and Gannon during that period.  So 3 pro bowl years in 13 years.

[jimkelly02]

1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said:

Yeah, I can understand rushing to fill out starters spots. Depth is where you find the value, so you can have more depth. I like most the moves but Witten, Heath, MM meh... 

That’s exactly my point, you said it better than I was trying to.

i don’t even dislike the moves. I dislike the an aspect or two of the contracts of these guys.  Still very happy with their additions and the overall job.

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

I was a fan of spending on a backup QB but not necessarily on MM.  Problem is that we need a particular type of QB to run Gruden's offense.  One of the main components to a successful QB, not Brad Johnson even though they won a Super Bowl, for this is the ability, willingness, understanding when to run.  That really limited our options.  Brady was probably the only option that did not run but still runs more than Carr.  MM has more ability than Driskel but I would have signed Driskel over MM because of what I saw on the field last year.  MM has more potential but I like how Driskel plays.  He is definitely a work in progress though.  Very similar to Fitz in that they do not come off the bench like they have been sitting there all year.  McGloin was another example of this.  When asked to come in the game they play to win instead of maintaining a lead.  I want a backup that will come in down 4 with a couple minutes left and at least try to drive the team down the field.  It is just a certain mentality I like to see.   I hate seeing a backup come in and hand the ball off 3 times in a row or not be able to control the jitters so they are throwing the ball ten feet over the receivers head.  

I also think Carr couldn’t handle back up qbS like cam, dalton or even Winston. Mm was just soft enough for carr to still feel comfortable 

[agarcia34]

Interesting article by Vic he spoke with Mark Davis and one of the things that were talked about was the Redskins game and what happened. It won’t let me quote the article but said that there was a lot of tension because while Mark gave Carr and Mack his blessing on kneeling no body was on the same page because JDR cited with Trump and his beliefs and he did not want people to kneel. 
 

I didn’t know that part, but seems like a perfect storm and u add the failed hiring of Downey and the tension of that not working. 
 

 

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

I also think Carr couldn’t handle back up qbS like cam, dalton or even Winston. Mm was just soft enough for carr to still feel comfortable 

This DC is soft narrative is whack..... 

[Humble_Beast]

15 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Interesting article by Vic he spoke with Mark Davis and one of the things that were talked about was the Redskins game and what happened. It won’t let me quote the article but said that there was a lot of tension because while Mark gave Carr and Mack his blessing on kneeling no body was on the same page because JDR cited with Trump and his beliefs and he did not want people to kneel. 
 

I didn’t know that part, but seems like a perfect storm and u add the failed hiring of Downey and the tension of that not working. 
 

 

that 12-4 team wouldn’t have fell apart so fast,  if we had a good coach. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

This DC is soft narrative is whack..... 

I said mm was soft ...

[Humble_Beast]

I wish Rico could find a spot on the team. He should be working on his return game 

https://www.raiders.com/news/raiders-speedsters-rico-gafford-and-henry-ruggs-iii-discuss-potential-footrace-t 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Humble_Beast

[jimkelly02]

8 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

They are following the New England way, make Mariota better and trading him.

Except I don’t think we’re going to be able to trade him without a clear, capable QB to replace him.  Do you want to trade him and have Peterman as the backup if Carr gets hurt? We’d all be screaming “Nooooo!” Lol

Only way we trade him is after the season.  He has a relatively low cap and the team trading for him has the incentive of getting a would-be starting QB without having guaranteed money or upfront signing bonus.  
Getting a taker in a trade will require him playing and playing pretty well.

But the problems we’ll have are: if we’re trading him it’s cuz Carr’s the QB still, meaning MM didn’t play enough and they’re will still be questions as to if he’s improved enough to be a starting QB; again we’ll likely see a surplus in starting QBs to teams needing a starting QB in the marketplace; teams will know we don’t or even can’t keep both QBs and that’ll drive down his value.

I can’t see MM being a backup for us again in ‘21 with a 10.1M cap hit.  He either becomes the starter, gets traded, or agrees to less money to stay as a backup.

 

[drfrey13]

7 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

This DC is soft narrative is whack..... 

Not going to call him soft or scared but he takes things to personal and acts like someone who has something to prove.  He is the type that would go home and contemplate why the team would do that to him.  Someone who is truly confident would look at it as more talent for the team is better for the team.  My entire life I looked to go up against people that were older, stronger, and better than I was.  I was going to learn and/or get better. Carr just does not have that grit.  If we brought in Julio Jones Carr would say great.  If we brought in Tom Brady he would not say let me pick this guys brain and beat him in camp.  He does not strive to get better but thinks those around him need to get better.  That is the sign of someone who has not been called out.  I think Gruden is going to call him out this year and it is going to ugly between the two.  If we play this year I think at some point you will see Carr on the sideline not even looking at Chucky while he glares at him in disgust.

[Bitty 2.0]

10 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Except I don’t think we’re going to be able to trade him without a clear, capable QB to replace him.  Do you want to trade him and have Peterman as the backup if Carr gets hurt? We’d all be screaming “Nooooo!” Lol

Only way we trade him is after the season.  He has a relatively low cap and the team trading for him has the incentive of getting a would-be starting QB without having guaranteed money or upfront signing bonus.  
Getting a taker in a trade will require him playing and playing pretty well.

But the problems we’ll have are: if we’re trading him it’s cuz Carr’s the QB still, meaning MM didn’t play enough and they’re will still be questions as to if he’s improved enough to be a starting QB; again we’ll likely see a surplus in starting QBs to teams needing a starting QB in the marketplace; teams will know we don’t or even can’t keep both QBs and that’ll drive down his value.

I can’t see MM being a backup for us again in ‘21 with a 10.1M cap hit.  He either becomes the starter, gets traded, or agrees to less money to stay as a backup.

 

This year is a waste but if he comes out and balls in next years preseason. Then there's a good chance someone with offer 3rd for him.  The Raiders will probably draft a QB sooner or later.