LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 If you said the QB, then you understand the concept of positional importance. Now, take a look at the rushing leaders over the last couple decades. A couple, three of those guys have won a ring, and just “a” ring, not multiple rings. Now do the same for passing yards leaders. MOST of those guys have won rings, MANY have won multiple. Are you seeing now why a very good qb trumps a great running back, 100/100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said: If you said the QB, then you understand the concept of positional importance. Now, take a look at the rushing leaders over the last couple decades. A couple, three of those guys have won a ring, and just “a” ring, not multiple rings. Now do the same for passing yards leaders. MOST of those guys have won rings, MANY have won multiple. Are you seeing now why a very good qb trumps a great running back, 100/100? Except Mayfield WASN'T a very good QB he was statistically average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Danger said: Wow Captain Strawman. After you struggled to figure if I was being serious re: Rodgers, Goff, etc, I figured I’d better slow things down here. 1 minute ago, Danger said: I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot you'd be 100% for Barkley and this argument is simply a convenient excuse for you to champion your bias. Maybe, luckily I don’t have to find out, but I do have a pretty long standing tradition of hating on the importance of the RB position in general, so I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Let's compare Dak and Baker Mayfield's Rookie seasons. Dak 2016 104.9 Rating (3rd) League Average - ~91.5 Mayfield 2018 93.7 Rating (19th) League Average - ~94.2 Just because the Browns and especially their QBs have sucked so bad for so long, doesn't give Baker Mayfield's performance bonus points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Danger said: Except Mayfield WASN'T a very good QB he was statistically average. Again, we can keep going round in circles on this but I’m not sure what the point would be... Once the historically incompetent coaching staff was removed as a roadblock, he IMMEDIATELY began playing at not only a “very good” level, but elite level (second best passing DVOA in the league behind only Mahomes). And this is with a coordinator who’s never called plays before on any level before this year. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2018/week-15-dvoa-ratings Now, that doesn’t include weeks 16-17, but I’m guessing those games wouldn’t have hurt much. So if you want to be obtuse and ignore the immediate advancement in his play when the incompetent HC and the OC (who some believed was tanking in hopes of being named the interim HC) were fired and only look at bulk numbers, go for it, those are good too, but the guy Baker is right now is a “very good” QB, despite what impact his September stats may have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Again, we can keep going round in circles on this but I’m not sure what the point would be... Once the historically incompetent coaching staff was removed as a roadblock, he IMMEDIATELY began playing at not only a “very good” level, but elite level (second best passing DVOA in the league behind only Mahomes). And this is with a coordinator who’s never called plays before on any level before this year. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2018/week-15-dvoa-ratings Now, that doesn’t include weeks 16-17, but I’m guessing those games wouldn’t have hurt much. So if you want to be obtuse and ignore the immediate advancement in his play when the incompetent HC and the OC (who some believed was tanking in hopes of being named the interim HC) were fired and only look at bulk numbers, go for it, those are good too, but the guy Baker is right now is a “very good” QB, despite what impact his September stats may have. So we get to discount Baker's poorer performances but not Barkley's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Danger said: Let's compare Dak and Baker Mayfield's Rookie seasons. Dak 2016 104.9 Rating (3rd) League Average - ~91.5 Mayfield 2018 93.7 Rating (19th) League Average - ~94.2 Just because the Browns and especially their QBs have sucked so bad for so long, doesn't give Baker Mayfield's performance bonus points. Wtf does Dak have to do with Baker and Saquon. Why do you keep doing this? 😂 Show me Favre’s rookie numbers next 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Danger said: So we get to discount Baker's poorer performances but not Barkley's? Is there an extenuating circumstance that warrants it? Lack of touches or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Wtf does Dak have to do with Baker and Saquon. Why do you keep doing this? 😂 Show me Favre’s rookie numbers next 😂 Many Browns fans have been pointing to Dak winning it over Zeke two years ago saying that a QB should win it over a Runningback each time. But by all means keep on ignoring the fact that Baker was, as a whole, an average QB this season. Even if the future is incredibly bright for him, he was average when you don't cherry pick data for this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Well if we are throwing QB rating in as a statistical backup of why Baker was just average, we may as well throw in the final pff qb rankings which has Baker at 9. A top 10 qb in the league as a rookie...not bad!!!!! but everyone likes to cherry pick which stats are good, and which ones' are irrelevant....sooooo....I'm sure 1 will argue that THIS particular stat should be discounted. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-final-list-of-pffs-highest-graded-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, big poppa pump said: Well if we are throwing QB rating in as a statistical backup of why Baker was just average, we may as well throw in the final pff qb rankings which has Baker at 9. A top 10 qb in the league as a rookie...not bad!!!!! but everyone likes to cherry pick which stats are good, and which ones' are irrelevant....sooooo....I'm sure 1 will argue that THIS particular stat should be discounted. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-final-list-of-pffs-highest-graded-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018 lol if you want to go by PFF Barkley was #4 at RB. PFF isn't quantifiable in any way. If someone wants to make the DVOA argument then I'll accept that as a valid argument. The only reason Baker should/may win this award is if you are one of two kinds of people. 1. A QB shill or 2. A Browns fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, big poppa pump said: Well if we are throwing QB rating in as a statistical backup of why Baker was just average, we may as well throw in the final pff qb rankings which has Baker at 9. A top 10 qb in the league as a rookie...not bad!!!!! but everyone likes to cherry pick which stats are good, and which ones' are irrelevant....sooooo....I'm sure 1 will argue that THIS particular stat should be discounted. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-final-list-of-pffs-highest-graded-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018 “It’s PFF bruh, it’s not nearly as good as my completely subjective personal opinion. Garbage link lololololollll “.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 One more thing to add. DVOA is a stat that is more effective at measuring team performance. It's not incredibly telling for individual performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Danger said: Many Browns fans have been pointing to Dak winning it over Zeke two years ago saying that a QB should win it over a Runningback each time. Who? Not me... 3 minutes ago, Danger said: But by all means keep on ignoring the fact that Baker was, as a whole, an average QB this season. Even if the future is incredibly bright for him, he was average when you don't cherry pick data for this season. You continue to ignore all context... 1. First, even assuming his season was statistically average, that’s fantastic achievement from a rookie QB, especially one taken high in the draft (ie they went to a poor team). Most rookie QB’s struggle mightily, especially the high picks. The expectation for quality play at this position for a rookie isn’t to be elite or very good. Hell, not looking completely lost is considered a positive for a lot of fans. The best the league has ever seen have required years of development, seasoning, etc. 2. There’s no developmental period for a running back. Hell a rookie 3rd rounder won the rushing title last year. It’s a plug and play position. The expectation for a RB taken at 2 is to be competing for rushing titles and leading the league in total yards. Theres a massive difference in degree of difficulty. 3. A good QB trumps any and all “great” players at other positions. That’s not being a QB shill, it’s acknowledging what football is in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, Danger said: One more thing to add. DVOA is a stat that is more effective at measuring team performance. It's not incredibly telling for individual performance. Read the link I posted, once we canned Huey we were posting an offensive DVOA of around 4th best in the league (iirc) as a team. Both team as individual number show the drastic and immediate change that occurred once the anchors were untethered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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