Bonanza23 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Who? Not me... You continue to ignore all context... 1. First, even assuming his season was statistically average, that’s fantastic achievement from a rookie QB, especially one taken high in the draft (ie they went to a poor team). Most rookie QB’s struggle mightily, especially the high picks. The expectation for quality play at this position for a rookie isn’t to be elite or very good. Hell, not looking completely lost is considered a positive for a lot of fans. The best the league has ever seen have required years of development, seasoning, etc. 2. There’s no developmental period for a running back. Hell a rookie 3rd rounder won the rushing title last year. It’s a plug and play position. The expectation for a RB taken at 2 is to be competing for rushing titles and leading the league in total yards. Theres a massive difference in degree of difficulty. 3. A good QB trumps any and all “great” players at other positions. That’s not being a QB shill, it’s acknowledging what football is in 2019. I can’t tell if you are one of two kinds of people. 1. A QB shill or 2. A Browns fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, Bonanza23 said: I can’t tell if you are one of two kinds of people. 1. A QB shill or 2. A Browns fan. Both tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 22 minutes ago, Danger said: Many Browns fans have been pointing to Dak winning it over Zeke two years ago saying that a QB should win it over a Runningback each time. But by all means keep on ignoring the fact that Baker was, as a whole, an average QB this season. Even if the future is incredibly bright for him, he was average when you don't cherry pick data for this season. Avg for your typical vet QB but would you call it an avg season for a rookie QB? How many rookie QBs have thrown for over 3k and 25TDs, Think the last QB to do that was Wilson . 3700+ yards and 27TDs is a pretty great season for a QB, especially when it only took him 13.5 games to do it. Yeah you could say the changing of the league aids that but that changing of the league aided in giving Barkley his 91 catches as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, buno67 said: Avg for your typical vet QB but would you call it an avg season for a rookie QB? That's not a relevant question because if someone was average for a rookie they certainly shouldn't be in the discussion for an award given to the "top" rookie. Ideally the rookie would be playing like some of the top vets at his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 28 minutes ago, Danger said: So we get to discount Baker's poorer performances but not Barkley's? Barkley is great but if you just want to add up all of the negative plays for each player I don't think you'll like who loses that battle. Mayfield was only average statistically. His play was great, even under Hue he just had more negative plays because the O-Line couldn't hold up for the long developing routes. Big plays are great, like Barkley shows but if you throw negative plays in there, as Barkley routinely had and Baker had early on then drives stall. I'm not saying it is all on Barkley that he had so many negative plays but homerun threats often try to hit homeruns instead of taking singles and that leads to a lot of 2nd and 12 or 3rd and 9 plays instead of 2nd and 7 or 3rd and 3. It can also lead to a big play so I get it. I'm cool with Barkley winning it on stats. Baker is obviously more valuable and had a greater impact on the team's success but this is more of a statistical award so I am cool with Barkley winning it. I wouldn't trade Baker for Barkley and three 1st round picks, but again, statistically Barkley was better this year compared to the best RBs and QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: That's not a relevant question because if someone was average for a rookie they certainly shouldn't be in the discussion for an award given to the "top" rookie. Ideally the rookie would be playing like some of the top vets at his position. And running backs do that every year. There isn't much of a difference at the position from one level to the next, it's mostly instinctive. It is why RBs usually win the award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said: Barkley is great but if you just want to add up all of the negative plays for each player I don't think you'll like who loses that battle. Mayfield was only average statistically. His play was great, even under Hue he just had more negative plays because the O-Line couldn't hold up for the long developing routes. Big plays are great, like Barkley shows but if you throw negative plays in there, as Barkley routinely had and Baker had early on then drives stall. I'm not saying it is all on Barkley that he had so many negative plays but homerun threats often try to hit homeruns instead of taking singles and that leads to a lot of 2nd and 12 or 3rd and 9 plays instead of 2nd and 7 or 3rd and 3. It can also lead to a big play so I get it. I'm cool with Barkley winning it on stats. Baker is obviously more valuable and had a greater impact on the team's success but this is more of a statistical award so I am cool with Barkley winning it. I wouldn't trade Baker for Barkley and three 1st round picks, but again, statistically Barkley was better this year compared to the best RBs and QBs. Are we forgetting how abysmal the Giants O-Line was? it was often times a fight for Barkley to just get back to the line of scrimmage. Mayfield's partner in crime, Nick Chubb, was considerably better than SaQuon's in Eli Manning. Baker Mayfield is a better fit for the Browns than Mayfield, and will help them more. I won't even argue that. --- Not directed at you: The DVOA statistic that was being referenced earlier. Mayfield finished 14th in that. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb Once again, it's not a good statistic for individual play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 21 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Both tbh... You’re the worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: I'm cool with Barkley winning it on stats. Baker is obviously more valuable and had a greater impact on the team's success but this is more of a statistical award so I am cool with Barkley winning it. I wouldn't trade Baker for Barkley and three 1st round picks, but again, statistically Barkley was better this year compared to the best RBs and QBs. I mean... this whole thing is an award for what they did this regular season, isn't it? Not a projection of hypothetical Sean McVay coached seasons 5 years from now where everyone is guaranteed to play 16 games. It's what happened in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, Danger said: Are we forgetting how abysmal the Giants O-Line was? it was often times a fight for Barkley to just get back to the line of scrimmage. Mayfield's partner in crime, Nick Chubb, was considerably better than SaQuon's in Eli Manning. Chubb’s a beast, no doubt (further proof there’s no development needed for RB’s), but Eli is likely headed to the friggin HOF and Chubb has less than 1k career rushing yards. Let’s pump the brakes a bit here... Just now, Danger said: Baker Mayfield is a better fit for the Browns than Mayfield, and will help them more. I won't even argue that. --- Not directed at you: The DVOA statistic that was being referenced earlier. Mayfield finished 14th in that. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb Once again, it's not a good statistic for individual play. For. The. Season. *I. Referenced. Post. Hue. (Week’s 9-17)* Bruh... ELITE play for the last half of the season immediately after an obstructionist coaching staff was removed. That was the point I was making earlier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: I mean... this whole thing is an award for what they did this regular season, isn't it? Not a projection of hypothetical Sean McVay coached seasons 5 years from now where everyone is guaranteed to play 16 games. It's what happened in 2018. What are you arguing with? He said he was cool with Barkley winning it, what else you looking for here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Chubb’s a beast, no doubt (further proof there’s no development needed for RB’s), but Eli is likely headed to the friggin HOF and Chubb has less than 1k career rushing yards. Let’s pump the brakes a bit here... For. The. Season. *I. Referenced. Post. Hue. (Week’s 9-17)* Bruh... ELITE play for the last half of the season immediately after an obstructionist coaching staff was removed. That was the point I was making earlier... Ah yes, you posted statistics from Weeks 9 to 15. A cherry picked hotstreak. The ROY award isn't just for part of the season, the entire season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Danger said: Ah yes, you posted statistics from Weeks 9 to 15. A cherry picked hotstreak. The ROY award isn't just for part of the season, the entire season. It was the last half of the season... immediately after a coaching change (again, context)... It’s an 8 consecutive game same size of elite QB play by a rookie. The article didn’t include weeks 16 and 17 as it was published before that. The last two weeks Baker threw 50-79 (63%) 660 yards, 6 TD’s and 3 picks. Don’t think those hurt him much... But I think we’ve repeated ourselves enough, let’s just agree to disagree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, Danger said: Are we forgetting how abysmal the Giants O-Line was? it was often times a fight for Barkley to just get back to the line of scrimmage. Mayfield's partner in crime, Nick Chubb, was considerably better than SaQuon's in Eli Manning. Baker Mayfield is a better fit for the Browns than Mayfield, and will help them more. I won't even argue that. --- Not directed at you: The DVOA statistic that was being referenced earlier. Mayfield finished 14th in that. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb Once again, it's not a good statistic for individual play. you realize that the browns OL got better because of baker mayfield? chubb led the league in yards after avg yards per contact and once kitchens and mayfield got on the same page, the qb hits numbers down went ridiculously. he was getting sacked like 5 times per game before the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: I mean... this whole thing is an award for what they did this regular season, isn't it? Not a projection of hypothetical Sean McVay coached seasons 5 years from now where everyone is guaranteed to play 16 games. It's what happened in 2018. It is whatever those that vote want it to be. There are 50 voters, they aren't going to share the same reasoning for their votes. Some will go by stats. Some will go by impact. Some will go with highlight films. Some will review game tape. It depends what they each weigh heavily who they end up voting for. I would bet it is a close vote because of that. If they all had to go with the 3rd most rushing yards vs. a middle of the pack passer rating Barkley would win in a landslide. If they went by impact Baker would win in a landslide. Some will do one, some will do the other. Baker probably wins a close one but I wouldn't be surprised either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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