jrry32 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: The system definitely played a role, Hue and Haley were submarining this team, but to imply that QB doesn’t impact a line is absurd to anyone who’s ever watched a game. And you’re right, some folks want to always blame and credit the OL, but that doesn’t make them right. It’s the same OL in both cases above, the only difference is we had a playcaller who put the QB in a situation where he could make reads and get rid of the ball. It’s not like our OL learned to block overnight. Well, it seems your OL did learn to block over night. That night happened to be the night Hue was fired. I didn't imply that the QB doesn't impact the OL. I implied very much the opposite. However, my point was that a dramatic turnaround from an OL isn't something you can just chalk up to the QB. Baker is significantly better than Tyrod at not taking sacks. But that doesn't mean that Cleveland's OL turnaround is entirely attributable to Baker. It sounds to me like Cleveland's OL improved themselves, especially once they were freed from bad coaching and a bad scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXsteeler Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 As far as the Mayfield Vs Barkley debate goes I'll ask two questions. How close was Barkley to having the greatest rookie season for a RB ever? How close was Mayfield to having the greatest rookie season for a QB ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, TXsteeler said: As far as the Mayfield Vs Barkley debate goes I'll ask two questions. How close was Barkley to having the greatest rookie season for a RB ever? How close was Mayfield to having the greatest rookie season for a QB ever? The guy who broke the rookie passing TD record (in 13.5 games)? I mean, kinda close??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I made a grand exaggeration to point out positional value is a thing, which some seem to believe doesn’t exist or don’t think applies in this situation. Your post was not in response to someone confused about positional value though - everyone on this site knows that QB is the most important position. He was just making the argument that Barkley is better. Which is why I'm not sure why it matters that Mayfield plays a more important position? Nobody would dare argue Roethlisberger is better than Sanders, Payton, Faulk, etc. So what's the difference here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXsteeler Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: The guy who broke the rookie passing TD record (in 13.5 games)? I mean, kinda close??? I used https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/08/20/the-10-best-qb-rookie-seasons-in-nfl-history-ranked/9/ to get a quick reference and it looks like he is definitely top 10 based off that list (Which is kind of terrible tbh but probably lists most of the good ones) but I would put Cam Newton, RG3, Russel Wilson, Andrew Luck, and Dak Prescott over him probably, although adjusting for context would probably move him up past Dak and maybe a couple others. Using the same site for examples of RB rookie seasons https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/05/01/best-seasons-rookie-running-back-last-30-years/10/ Barkley was probably around #4 behind Edgerrin James, Clinton Portis, and Ezekiel Elliot but there are a couple others around him. Overall they are both somewhere around having a top 5 all time rookie season at their respective position, so this question doesn't seem to have solved anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 23 minutes ago, TXsteeler said: I used https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/08/20/the-10-best-qb-rookie-seasons-in-nfl-history-ranked/9/ to get a quick reference and it looks like he is definitely top 10 based off that list (Which is kind of terrible tbh but probably lists most of the good ones) but I would put Cam Newton, RG3, Russel Wilson, Andrew Luck, and Dak Prescott over him probably, although adjusting for context would probably move him up past Dak and maybe a couple others. Using the same site for examples of RB rookie seasons https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/05/01/best-seasons-rookie-running-back-last-30-years/10/ Barkley was probably around #4 behind Edgerrin James, Clinton Portis, and Ezekiel Elliot but there are a couple others around him. Overall they are both somewhere around having a top 5 all time rookie season at their respective position, so this question doesn't seem to have solved anything. Edgerrin James had a much lower YPC and had 8 fumbles versus Barkley’s 0 fumbles. Ezekiel Elliot had one of the best run blocking lines in recent history blocking for him. In my time being a fan ~20 years, only Clinton Portis had a comparable season to Barkley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 19 minutes ago, Gmen said: Edgerrin James had a much lower YPC and had 8 fumbles versus Barkley’s 0 fumbles. Ezekiel Elliot had one of the best run blocking lines in recent history blocking for him. In my time being a fan ~20 years, only Clinton Portis had a comparable season to Barkley. Unless you love volume, Kamara had a better season last year. A yard more per carry, 2+ more per reception, 75% of the yard production and 87% of the TD production on 57% of the touches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: Unless you love volume, Kamara had a better season last year. A yard more per carry, 2+ more per reception, 75% of the yard production and 87% of the TD production on 57% of the touches. Kamara is a good player, but he’s playing with the best offensive minds in football. Its not just that Barkley led the league in yards from scrimmage, big plays, and broken tackles. He did it against all odds with one of the worst lines in the league. Imagine him behind the 2016 Dallas line, or on a team with Drew Brees and Sean Payton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gmen said: Kamara is a good player, but he’s playing with the best offensive minds in football. Its not just that Barkley led the league in yards from scrimmage, big plays, and broken tackles. He did it against all odds with one of the worst lines in the league. Imagine him behind the 2016 Dallas line, or on a team with Drew Brees and Sean Payton Yeah, I don't buy that. The first half of the season, I buy that. But the Giants OL was run blocking quite effectively the second half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, iknowcool said: Your post was not in response to someone confused about positional value though - everyone on this site knows that QB is the most important position. He was just making the argument that Barkley is better. Which is why I'm not sure why it matters that Mayfield plays a more important position? Nobody would dare argue Roethlisberger is better than Sanders, Payton, Faulk, etc. So what's the difference here? So you’re saying that the first team All Pro Quentin Nelson should be the pick then yeah? He’s clearly the best rookie at his particular position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Top 10-15 RB season all time vs top 10-15 QB season of this year... neither made the playoffs. So no extra points there. Just confused why this is the kind of debate that it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said: Top 10-15 RB season all time vs top 10-15 QB season of this year... neither made the playoffs. So no extra points there. Just confused why this is the kind of debate that it is. Welcome to FF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Welcome to FF. Thanks for the welcome. It only took you 11 years after I joined as a member and 3 years after I retired from moderator duties before I got the welcome. But I appreciate the belated welcome.🤗🤩 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVRamsFan Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 1 hour ago, TXsteeler said: I used https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/08/20/the-10-best-qb-rookie-seasons-in-nfl-history-ranked/9/ to get a quick reference and it looks like he is definitely top 10 based off that list (Which is kind of terrible tbh but probably lists most of the good ones) but I would put Cam Newton, RG3, Russel Wilson, Andrew Luck, and Dak Prescott over him probably, although adjusting for context would probably move him up past Dak and maybe a couple others. Using the same site for examples of RB rookie seasons https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/05/01/best-seasons-rookie-running-back-last-30-years/10/ Barkley was probably around #4 behind Edgerrin James, Clinton Portis, and Ezekiel Elliot but there are a couple others around him. Overall they are both somewhere around having a top 5 all time rookie season at their respective position, so this question doesn't seem to have solved anything. Your reference only goes back 30 years so unfortunately you missed the best rookie season ever in 1983. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 SIIIIIDE note. The whole Kicker vs QB thing yesterday. Yeah it doesn't make much sense in regards to OROY. It's offensive Rookie of the year, not special teams rookie of the year. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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