Bobby816 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 We trade for Clark then I’m ok with drafting Oliver. No edge. Then you can’t convince me he’s a smarter pick then Allen or Bosa for us at 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Just to clear the air here a little bit between Allen, Oliver, etc. Allen has outstanding upside, but is still raw in some respects. He played WR in HS before transitioning to LB. He's a little raw. He doesn't have many pass rush moves and right now, he's winning predominately with his speed and athleticism. That's why he wasn't a projected top 15 pick before his bowl game and that's what separates him from a guy like Nick Bosa. Bosa has excellent pass rush moves, but he's not as versatile as Allen who can drop back in coverage, etc.. With that said, Bosa should be a double-digit sack guy from day 1. I think Allen has more upside that Bosa, but much higher bust potential as well, which is why I'd take Bosa over him. I personally put Allen's floor as someone like Vic Beasley who purely wins with athleticism and outside of one big year, has been a disappointment for the most part. I'd put his ceiling as Aldon Smith. A guy capable of 15 sacks any given year. Oliver has a lot of flaws as well. He doesn't have great length, but he makes up for that with strength and explosiveness. He wasn't developed properly at Houston and played out of position at NT. He's a difficult comp. I think his ideal playing weight would be at about 275. If he develops properly, I think he's a double-digit sack guy all day and a chess piece on D. I don't think there's a best answer to who's better between Allen and Oliver. I think it's highly debatable. It's going to be a pure hindsight game. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said: Just to clear the air here a little bit between Allen, Oliver, etc. Allen has outstanding upside, but is still raw in some respects. He played WR in HS before transitioning to LB. He's a little raw. He doesn't have many pass rush moves and right now, he's winning predominately with his speed and athleticism. That's why he wasn't a projected top 15 pick before his bowl game and that's what separates him from a guy like Nick Bosa. Bosa has excellent pass rush moves, but he's not as versatile as Allen who can drop back in coverage, etc.. With that said, Bosa should be a double-digit sack guy from day 1. I think Allen has more upside that Bosa, but much higher bust potential as well, which is why I'd take Bosa over him. I personally put Allen's floor as someone like Vic Beasley who purely wins with athleticism and outside of one big year, has been a disappointment for the most part. I'd put his ceiling as Aldon Smith. A guy capable of 15 sacks any given year. Oliver has a lot of flaws as well. He doesn't have great length, but he makes up for that with strength and explosiveness. He wasn't developed properly at Houston and played out of position at NT. He's a difficult comp. I think his ideal playing weight would be at about 275. If he develops properly, I think he's a double-digit sack guy all day and a chess piece on D. I don't think there's a best answer to who's better between Allen and Oliver. I think it's highly debatable. It's going to be a pure hindsight game. I can agree with all this. Except I don’t see Allen as as big of a risk as you. I certainly see Olivers talent. Just don’t think it’s what we need bc of our personnel. And there’s 2 edges that 100% aren’t reaches that deserve the 3rd pick. So neither are a reach if available. That’s my main thing. I’ve been very clear that I think offense is what this team needs and I still think we do. But edge is the exception to that rule for me. Hell I’d rather draft Greedy Williams than draft a non edge on defense. That’s why no DLineman are on my big board for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drew39k Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 I just see Allen as another gholston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, drew39k said: I just see Allen as another gholston I don’t see that at all. Can you explain why? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 I seen a fan compare QWill to Dewayne Robertson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: I can agree with all this. Except I don’t see Allen as as big of a risk as you. I certainly see Olivers talent. Just don’t think it’s what we need bc of our personnel. And there’s 2 edges that 100% aren’t reaches that deserve the 3rd pick. So neither are a reach if available. That’s my main thing. I’ve been very clear that I think offense is what this team needs and I still think we do. But edge is the exception to that rule for me. Hell I’d rather draft Greedy Williams than draft a non edge on defense. That’s why no DLineman are on my big board for us. Allen's biggest risk is development of pass rushing moves. You say Allen isn't a reach at 3. Would you have called him a reach at 3 if he didn't light up the bowl game? Because the entire league would. Oliver has been a top 10 pick from the get-go. I think the problem is that people aren't envision Oliver as an "edge". I'd venture a guess that in nickel looks, Oliver would be lined up at end. Anderson and Leo would be on the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 minute ago, KingOfTheDot said: I seen a fan compare QWill to Dewayne Robertson. Eesh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 By the way, I think Mac desperately wants a 2nd rounder because that's the asking price of Frank Clark, a current 2nd rounder, not a future one. If Mac gets his wish, I think he targets a tackle in round 1 and then looks for a guy like McGovern in the 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rampantjet Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 28 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said: By the way, I think Mac desperately wants a 2nd rounder because that's the asking price of Frank Clark, a current 2nd rounder, not a future one. If Mac gets his wish, I think he targets a tackle in round 1 and then looks for a guy like McGovern in the 3rd. Interesting. I hadn't thought of that as a reason to trade back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johntyler82 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, barnaby8787 said: By the way, I think Mac desperately wants a 2nd rounder because that's the asking price of Frank Clark, a current 2nd rounder, not a future one. If Mac gets his wish, I think he targets a tackle in round 1 and then looks for a guy like McGovern in the 3rd. The asking price for Clark is a current 1st rounder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetfuel34 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Johntyler82 said: The asking price for Clark is a current 1st rounder. That is WAY to high. I would do a 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johntyler82 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, jetfuel34 said: That is WAY to high. I would do a 3rd. Not saying I agree with it. But that's what's being reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johntyler82 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 I dont want to rain on anyone's parade but you can virtually guarantee we will not be getting Clark. There are teams with FAR more draft capital than us, that can easily trade for him at any time during the draft without some overcomplicated trade scenario. We instead need to focus on hitting on our draft picks that we do have, and getting them to be productive for 4 years on cheap contracts. That's how good teams do it, not give up draft picks and then pay premium dollar to extend said player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJets4716 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Oliver seems like a bust pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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