Adrenaline_Flux Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, pwny said: Well here’s how the conversations come together. We’ve established that 3 tags is a late first. 3 tags should be the value of a first round pick. We’ve now discussed that a late third is 1/3 of a late first. We’ve now discussed that a second and 5th are 2/3 of a late first. Therefore, 1 tag should cost a third. 2 tags should cost a 2nd and 5th, 2 thirds, or 2 tags+3rd for a 1st. I get your reasoning, but I'd argue that the valuation there of 1 tag and 2 tags is off simply because tags grouped together has exponential value. Since tags are used for keepers and higher premium positions require more tags then it means that 1 tag by itself is worth less than a third because even though 1 tag is 1/3rd of 3 tags (equal to a late first), 1 tag by itself doesn't actually buy you much value. Hopefully that makes sense. Kind of hard to articulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Adrenaline_Flux said: I get your reasoning, but I'd argue that the valuation there of 1 tag and 2 tags is off simply because tags grouped together has exponential value. Since tags are used for keepers and higher premium positions require more tags then it means that 1 tag by itself is worth less than a third because even though 1 tag is 1/3rd of 3 tags (equal to a late first), 1 tag by itself doesn't actually buy you much value. Hopefully that makes sense. Kind of hard to articulate. Except here’s my problem. I trade my first for 3 thirds. I can now trade my 8th and 4th for 1 and 2 tags. I’ve now basically traded my first for 3 tags, but I also just traded an 8th and 4th for 3 thirds. Where is the incentive to pay the premium value for the 3 tags when I can split them and recoup better picks with my first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 13 minutes ago, pwny said: Well here’s how the conversations come together. We’ve established that 3 tags is a late first. 3 tags should be the value of a first round pick. This is an absolute. We’ve now discussed that a late third is 1/3 of a late first. We’ve now discussed that a second and 5th are 2/3 of a late first. Therefore, 1 tag should cost a third. 2 tags should cost a 2nd and 5th, 2 thirds, or 2 tags+3rd for a 1st. I’m now just trying to establish the value of 4 tags. Everything is market 4 tags isn't necessary 4/3 of the price of 3 tags It might HAVE to be 2 (or more) separate trades The price of a single tag varies by an immense amount depending on how many people need one, and how many people are offering one It's too fluid to try to put a true value on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 minute ago, pwny said: Except here’s my problem. I trade my first for 3 thirds. I can now trade my 8th and 4th for 1 and 2 tags. I’ve now basically traded my first for 3 tags, but I also just traded an 8th and 4th for 3 thirds. Where is the incentive to pay the premium value for the 3 tags when I can split them and recoup better picks with my first? By all means, take advantage of said arbitrage situation if you think the opportunity is there But all of your "established" values are purely hypothetical until you can find a partner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tk3 said: It's too fluid to try to put a true value on We can put a relative value though. If the approximate value of 1 tag is a 3rd rounder, there’s zero reason that they should be going for a 6th-8th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Tk3 said: By all means, take advantage of said arbitrage situation if you think the opportunity is there But all of your "established" values are purely hypothetical until you can find a partner I’m arguing that the market prices are stupid and need to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenaline_Flux Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, pwny said: Except here’s my problem. I trade my first for 3 thirds. I can now trade my 8th and 4th for 1 and 2 tags. I’ve now basically traded my first for 3 tags, but I also just traded an 8th and 4th for 3 thirds. Where is the incentive to pay the premium value for the 3 tags when I can split them and recoup better picks with my first? If you can, you should try accumulating the picks separately. The guarantee of having a premium number of tags (3) + the owner having to give away a premium number of tags (3) is why it is valued so high compared to if you get the tags separately. It should be easier to get 1 tag than it is to get 3 tags. Ultimately though, it's whatever the market dictates and the market seems to have fluctuated a lot the past couple of seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, pwny said: I’m arguing that the market prices are stupid and need to be changed. I've considered it. But I fought for three tags to be worth more than a second or third and quit after that. Two tags used to go for a seventh or eighth way back when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 28 minutes ago, pwny said: Except here’s my problem. I trade my first for 3 thirds. I can now trade my 8th and 4th for 1 and 2 tags. I’ve now basically traded my first for 3 tags, but I also just traded an 8th and 4th for 3 thirds. Where is the incentive to pay the premium value for the 3 tags when I can split them and recoup better picks with my first? Then do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 22 minutes ago, pwny said: I’m arguing that the market prices are stupid and need to be changed. This isn't a store with pricetags and labels Things cost what two parties are willing to agree on You are 1/20 of the league. If you feel the prices are incorrect, then don't pay them. That will reduce the demand, which eventually lowers people's price expectations. I agree with you, tbh, which is why I have never purchased 3 tags at once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Also... nobody in the world is giving 3 3rds for a late 1st.. That in itself makes this whole conversation moot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 At the same time, you're asking for three tags to keep a premium position. And if you want the tags, you're (probably) assuming that guy goes in the first round. So spending a first to keep said player is essentially drafting him again in the first round. If you don't want the three tags to keep that guy, just draft him again with your first pick. It's the same as trading your first pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 31 minutes ago, pwny said: We can put a relative value though. If the approximate value of 1 tag is a 3rd rounder, there’s zero reason that they should be going for a 6th-8th. They go for 6th-8th because a team only needs to use 19, and is desperate to move them This whole 3 tags = late 1st = 3 3rds is really, REALLY bad math Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tk3 said: You are 1/20 of the league. If you feel the prices are incorrect, then don't pay them. That will reduce the demand, which eventually lowers people's price expectations. Or we could have discussions about these things. A thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Just now, pwny said: Or we could have discussions about these things. A thought. why not let people overpay? particularly when the people who do so are the contenders? A thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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