Raiders Defense

[massraider]

Aside from a CB, I don't see much defensive help in this draft. Not that there isn't help to be found, but so much was added in free agency, it really feels like offense is the focus.  Our two biggest needs are WR and CB right now, and that's the strength of this draft. 

We have a ton of young guys that need to take the next step. Interior pressure is most likely going to come from guys we have. We need Hall as well as Hurst to take a step up. I'm losing hope with Key, but he's the 4th edge pass rusher now, so whatever. Collins and Hurst BETTER be enough on 3rd down. If Hurst improves a bit as a finisher, the ripple effects would be huge. It would be easier on the edge guys, and a lot easier on the corners.  

I don't expect a LB to go, unless a real talent falls to the 3rd round.

I'm fairly excited to see if Isaiah Johnson can contribute. Injury washout last year, but has the tools, and was graded really high by PFF coming out of college. 

[Darbsk]

2 minutes ago, massraider said:

Aside from a CB, I don't see much defensive help in this draft. Not that there isn't help to be found, but so much was added in free agency, it really feels like offense is the focus.  Our two biggest needs are WR and CB right now, and that's the strength of this draft. 

We have a ton of young guys that need to take the next step. Interior pressure is most likely going to come from guys we have. We need Hall as well as Hurst to take a step up. I'm losing hope with Key, but he's the 4th edge pass rusher now, so whatever. Collins and Hurst BETTER be enough on 3rd down. If Hurst improves a bit as a finisher, the ripple effects would be huge. It would be easier on the edge guys, and a lot easier on the corners.  

I don't expect a LB to go, unless a real talent falls to the 3rd round.

I'm fairly excited to see if Isaiah Johnson can contribute. Injury washout last year, but has the tools, and was graded really high by PFF coming out of college. 

I think we could be a pretty decent defence but the worry I have us that most if the expected improvement comes from potential. Crosby and Ferrell both gave potential though Crosby has shown genuine skill. Hurst and Collins have potential but Collins has only started for one season and Hurst hasnt really proved yet to be mire than a rotational guy, same with Hall who has potential.

Abram is all potential though I do like the cut of his jib, Mullen has shown a lot of promise and I think he will be a quality starter but not a certainty yet. As for the others, Randall has good and bad reviews so I'm unsure which version we'll get and Joyner must improve.

Littleton is a quality player but again Kwit we're basing off less than a season starting though I think he'll be good. 

I'm excited to see what we can do but its all projection right now and odds are a number of new additions will underwhelm. I think we still need to add a couple CBs, a LB or two, a safety and a penetrating DT in the draft, but obviously we only gave limited draft capital and have to address the offense too.

[NYRaider]

One thing that excites me about our defense is the youth and speed. We usually have washed up players across the board on defense. But assuming Joyner is the slot and Lawson is the other outside CB, we still don't have a projected starter on defense that is 30+ years old. And the average age of our starting defense as a whole is 25.1 years old. 

[NYRaider]

On 4/15/2020 at 5:11 AM, massraider said:

Aside from a CB, I don't see much defensive help in this draft. Not that there isn't help to be found, but so much was added in free agency, it really feels like offense is the focus.  Our two biggest needs are WR and CB right now, and that's the strength of this draft. 

We still need depth across the defense though. At CB we really don't have much except Mullen and Lawson, at safety Randall is on a 1 year deal, and Harris is what he is. At LB we don't have much of anything behind Littleton and Kwit, and Kwit is relatively unproven as well. Collins is on a 1 year deal, Hankins is on a 1 year deal, Hurst didn't take the next step, and the staff doesn't seem to like PJ Hall very much. I like a main three rotation of Crosby/Ferrell/Nassib but we could still use a speed rusher in the rotation off the edge, IMO. 

[massraider]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We still need depth across the defense though. At CB we really don't have much except Mullen and Lawson, at safety Randall is on a 1 year deal, and Harris is what he is. At LB we don't have much of anything behind Littleton and Kwit, and Kwit is relatively unproven as well. Collins is on a 1 year deal, Hankins is on a 1 year deal, Hurst didn't take the next step, and the staff doesn't seem to like PJ Hall very much. I like a main three rotation of Crosby/Ferrell/Nassib but we could still use a speed rusher in the rotation off the edge, IMO. 

Agree completely, and I'd be happy to see a LB, 2 CBs, a FS type to replace Randall next year, and a DT drafted.  I don't think there's an edge player getting drafted, for obvious reasons. 

We really need a Hurst/Hall/Isaiah Simmons step up. One or more becoming viable would really help without expending more draft capital. 

[doctordeath]

On 4/15/2020 at 8:28 AM, Darbsk said:

I think we could be a pretty decent defence but the worry I have us that most if the expected improvement comes from potential. Crosby and Ferrell both gave potential though Crosby has shown genuine skill. Hurst and Collins have potential but Collins has only started for one season and Hurst hasnt really proved yet to be mire than a rotational guy, same with Hall who has potential.

Abram is all potential though I do like the cut of his jib, Mullen has shown a lot of promise and I think he will be a quality starter but not a certainty yet. As for the others, Randall has good and bad reviews so I'm unsure which version we'll get and Joyner must improve.

Littleton is a quality player but again Kwit we're basing off less than a season starting though I think he'll be good. 

I'm excited to see what we can do but its all projection right now and odds are a number of new additions will underwhelm. I think we still need to add a couple CBs, a LB or two, a safety and a penetrating DT in the draft, but obviously we only gave limited draft capital and have to address the offense too.

This 100000%!

Depth is often soooooo overlooked in this forum (not everyone but quite a few folks). Let's take our TE situation for example: arguably the best GROUP in the league. *Note I didn't say player; that is reserved for the Kelce's and Kittle's as of right now.

Mayock/Gruden are looking for more contributors, like his past draft class. Because if it isn't obvious: Current guys may not be in the long-term plans. Guys get gassed. And injured. There are even guy that don't pan out despite the off-season FA hype. 

I'm pounding the table for offensive help (darn you AB!!!!!!) first and foremost don't get me wrong. But it'd be wise to further improve the terrible defense we had and keep throwing sh*t at the metaphorical wall (roster) until someone sticks.

Don't forget: whether you like Carr or not, the #1 problem last year, and for a while now, wasn't him. It was and is until proven otherwise, the defense.

[Humble_Beast]

I think we have room for 

RB- 1

WR- 2

T- 1

G- 1

DE- 1

DT- 1

LB- 2

CB- 2

S- 1 

Figure we sign 2 vets post draft, so room for 9 rookies. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Humble_Beast

[jimkelly02]

I’m in the middle of watching on GamePass some games of Joyner in ‘17 as mainly a slot CB and ‘18 as a FS with Rams and comparing them to games I’m watching as a Raider in ‘19 as a slot CB. 
 

one initial thing I saw was in ‘19 Joyner would often have be responsible (or so it looked) for the underneath and offenses would slip passes over him.  I’m talking 10yd’ish passes.  Maybe I don’t have enough of a sample size yet but it seems like he did just fine in when he was covering in front of him but struggled to cover behind him (I hope I’m making sense here).   He’s always been capable of making a splash play by coming off his zone of man coverage and reading the QB and drifting back to make a play on the ball.

i think Joyner would be best served playing off man coverage and as a deep safety in a 3man Safety defense.  I can’t pinpoint it yet why he struggled vs being successful in the past but i just get the vibe he was playing coverages/techniques/etc that weren’t conducive to his best play.

does anyone have any info or thoughts on Joyner?

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by jimkelly02

[jimkelly02]

45 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I think we have room for 

RB- 1

WR- 2

T- 1

G- 1

DE- 1

DT- 1

LB- 2

CB- 2

S- 1 

Figure we sign 2 vets post draft, so room for 9 rookies. 

I agree on 1 RB, 2 WR, 2 LB, and 2 CB.

i think we might bring in competition for Parker at LT2, but it’s a one or the other come cut time.  We’re going to end up cutting one of Devey, Kush, or James so there’s no need for drafting another G.

10 OL: Miller, Incognito, Hudson, Jackson, Brown plus Good, Sharpe, Parker, James, Devey/Kush

I think we’ll carry 9 DLmen so we’ll add either a DE or DT but not both.  Hopefully we can get a 2in1 with resigning D.Jordan.

we’ll likely add 2 more DBs but right now I see it as:

Mullen, CB2, CB3, Johnson, Lawson plus Joyner and Nixon at slot.  That’s 7 CB.  There’d be no room to carry 7 DBs and 5 Safeties.  We already have Abram, Randall plus Heath, Harris.  We’ll carry 2 more DBs not not 3 (2 CB, 1 S)

note: my understanding of the expanded 55 man rosters isn’t a true 55man roster, rather 2 PS players can be activated to the active roster in a non transactional move (they never leave the PS).  Seems like a whole lot to do for nothing because these guys are just going to be on the inactive list unless circumstances come up that we’re short for active players at a specific position and go to the PS to bring someone up to play.

[NYRaider]

37 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

does anyone have any info or thoughts on Joyner?

In his two best years for the Rams he played 1,358 snaps at FS and 178 snaps at slot corner. He should play primarily in a safety role and move into the slot situationally. If our staff wasn't so hard headed we should've signed Chris Harris to play in the slot and moved Joyner to FS. 

[jimkelly02]

40 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

In his two best years for the Rams he played 1,358 snaps at FS and 178 snaps at slot corner. He should play primarily in a safety role and move into the slot situationally. If our staff wasn't so hard headed we should've signed Chris Harris to play in the slot and moved Joyner to FS. 

I agree he should move to FS and drop into cover the slot as needed on a matchup situational basis.  Part of my desire to go back and look at where he played well in the past is to see what he could do for us if used properly.  I just don’t understand why we want to keep playing him in a role he isn’t good at.

[jimkelly02]

2 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

I think we have room for 

RB- 1

WR- 2

T- 1

G- 1

DE- 1

DT- 1

LB- 2

CB- 2

S- 1 

Figure we sign 2 vets post draft, so room for 9 rookies. 

Btw we currently have 86 roster spots filled with players or draft picks.  There’s always a few guys we sign to future contracts that get cut before camp (if I’d have to guess this years candidates include Mark Thompson RB, Nick Usher LB, Derrick Moncrief LB, maybe William Stanback RB, Kendall Vickers DL,  but Usher got 25k bonus and Stanback got 100k so they could make it to camp).  There isn’t much room to sign UDFAs and many veterans after the draft.  

I’d want to say this may be a reaction to get more “known” players into cap versus UDFAs but there transactions happened prior to covid.  I just find the move interesting.  Last year we had 10 UDFAs plus our 9 draft picks.  In ‘18 we had 10 UDFAs and 9 draft picks.  In ‘17 we had 17 UDFAs and 9 draft picks.

this year we have 7 draft picks currently and only room for an additional 4 UDFAs or veteran signings after the draft.  

obviously as we get better as a team it makes sense to bring in FA veterans to challenge incumbent starters and backups for roster spots.  This lessens the number of UDFA signings.  It’s just odd that this year we’ve filled so much of the roster before the draft.  

[Humble_Beast]

I still want to sign a vet RB, LB, CB and Jordan LOL. Does NFL still have the rule, you can only take 90 players to camp?

[jimkelly02]

29 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I still want to sign a vet RB, LB, CB and Jordan LOL. Does NFL still have the rule, you can only take 90 players to camp?

The rule has always been a max roster of 90.  
we’re at 86 with draft picks. But a few guys could be cut prior to camp.  

i definitely think we need to resign D.Jordan and a CB (Worley, Kirkpatrick, Trumaine Johnson, etc) to ease a CB we draft into the lineup.  

like I said a few of the early reserve contract guys usually get cut after mini camp.  We can go over 90 with mini camp “try out” players.  Typically we’ll sign a guy from that to the 90 man roster... that’s how Jalen Richard started.  
 

it’ll be interesting to see without a minicamp how this roster is finalized before camp.  We won’t have the opportunity bring in a bunch of try-out players and bunch of UDFAs for competition and hope a few make the team.  

[drfrey13]

7 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

I agree he should move to FS and drop into cover the slot as needed on a matchup situational basis.  Part of my desire to go back and look at where he played well in the past is to see what he could do for us if used properly.  I just don’t understand why we want to keep playing him in a role he isn’t good at.

Remember for as long as I have paid attention to this team there has always been one move every year that almost everyone knows we should do but it does not happen.  90% of the time the team looks stupid for not correcting an issue even when the fans know what to do.  Every once in a while the fans are wrong but not often.  Case in point is last year when we all knew to get rid of Cable but they showed a lot of improvement so we were wrong.  Reggie Nelson, not drafting LBs, and KNJ have been the latest that we were correct on.  We are going to have to wait and see what happens with Joyner.

Worst case scenario with the season next year is that it is cancelled.  Does anyone know how that will effect contracts?  Players with guaranteed money are getting paid but does the team retain their rights for an extra year or do rookie contracts automatically get extended a year?  In some way someone is getting screwed besides the fans.