showtime Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 10:32 AM, SmittyBacall said: I never said it was entirely dependent on 40 time. Relax. This is what I've interpreted from game play. I rarely see Thomas go deep. Could you provide some examples? Yea, I don't know. I don't really care about 40 times, tbh. When I watch them play, Thomas isn't anywhere near as quick, agile or fast as Antonio Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, showtime said: Yea, I don't know. I don't really care about 40 times, tbh. When I watch them play, Thomas isn't anywhere near as quick, agile or fast as Antonio Brown. I don't think anyone has said otherwise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: Thank you. Thats all people have been saying. Thomas has all the skills to be a deep threat, so I feel that its unfair to say he can't be one just because thats not what he's asked to do. Especially when people have posted clips of him getting open deep using his speed/route running ability. If Thomas were a great deep threat, he'd be asked to do it. Sean Payton is a jerk, but he's not a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, jrry32 said: If Thomas were a great deep threat, he'd be asked to do it. Sean Payton is a jerk, but he's not a fool. Why would you have him do it when Brees would routinely undethrow him? I don’t know how many times I need to say this. Just last week Brees underthrew 2 would be TDs. That’s my main point. Just because he isn’t asked to it because of outside factors doesn’t mean he’s bad at doing it and even regardless it’s a completely silly reason to say a guy isn’t elite, but I digress. Good discussion. Also, don’t be confused by the speed comments and such. Those are aimed at Smitty who for some reason equates speed to being a great WR or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 You can't really argue with production, so I'll say that to start. But to me, Thomas is just nowhere near the player Antonio Brown or Odell Beckham Jr. is. Those guys are just more physically gifted and more talented, IMO. So with that said, no, Thomas is not a tier 1 WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, showtime said: You can't really argue with production, so I'll say that to start. But to me, Thomas is just nowhere near the player Antonio Brown or Odell Beckham Jr. is. Those guys are just more physically gifted and more talented, IMO. So with that said, no, Thomas is not a tier 1 WR. So are those 2 the only guys in the tier 1 WR list then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just now, Raves said: So are those 2 the only guys in the tier 1 WR list then? I would throw Julio Jones in there as well. I think Michael Thomas is in the same tier as AJ Green and the rest of those guys. Granted, Thomas plays with a QB that's SIGNIFICANTLY better than Hopkins, Green, and those guys so that's a massive advantage in Thomas' favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, showtime said: I would throw Julio Jones in there as well. I think Michael Thomas is in the same tier as AJ Green and the rest of those guys. Granted, Thomas plays with a QB that's SIGNIFICANTLY better than Hopkins, Green, and those guys so that's a massive advantage in Thomas' favor. Agreed but Watson is no slouch... I think most people agree he’s behind ODB, AB and Julio but right there with Hopkins and AJ Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Just now, MookieMonstah said: Agreed but Watson is no slouch... I think most people agree he’s behind ODB, AB and Julio but right there with Hopkins and AJ Green. Oh, I love Watson. He's one of my favorite young QB's in the game. But he's just nowhere near the thrower Brees is. He's nowhere near the thrower a lot of QB's are, yet. But yea, you have to put him in the same tier as AJ Green and those other guys because they all have similar skill sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raves Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, showtime said: I would throw Julio Jones in there as well. I think Michael Thomas is in the same tier as AJ Green and the rest of those guys. Granted, Thomas plays with a QB that's SIGNIFICANTLY better than Hopkins, Green, and those guys so that's a massive advantage in Thomas' favor. I mean playing with Brees has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that Thomas' route running pays more dividends on Brees short-intermediate passes, the disadvantage is that having Thomas run deep is a hindrance as we lack any other receiver that can play the short-intermediate route well enough that Brees can trust to catch the ball if other options aren't available, not to mention Brees' deep ball has been struggling the past 2-3 years as been proven. I think that Thomas might almost be better off with someone like Matt Ryan/Big Ben etc that have a stronger arm right now than Brees and it would let him highlight more of his game. Though I will say if you have your list down to 2-3 players, not including Thomas in "tier 1" I wouldn't have a problem with. But once you start getting to 5-7 then Thomas needs to be in the discussion even if he's sitting just on the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: Why would you have him do it when Brees would routinely undethrow him? I don’t know how many times I need to say this. Just last week Brees underthrew 2 would be TDs. That’s my main point. Just because he isn’t asked to it because of outside factors doesn’t mean he’s bad at doing it and even regardless it’s a completely silly reason to say a guy isn’t elite, but I digress. Good discussion. Also, don’t be confused by the speed comments and such. Those are aimed at Smitty who for some reason equates speed to being a great WR or not. Even in past years, y'all weren't using him as a deep threat. Why would I just assume he has that ability? Further, he's not elite because he's not elite. It seems even you agree with that, so I'm not sure what point you're making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showtime Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Raves said: I mean playing with Brees has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that Thomas' route running pays more dividends on Brees short-intermediate passes, the disadvantage is that having Thomas run deep is a hindrance as we lack any other receiver that can play the short-intermediate route well enough that Brees can trust to catch the ball if other options aren't available, not to mention Brees' deep ball has been struggling the past 2-3 years as been proven. I think that Thomas might almost be better off with someone like Matt Ryan/Big Ben etc that have a stronger arm right now than Brees and it would let him highlight more of his game. Though I will say if you have your list down to 2-3 players, not including Thomas in "tier 1" I wouldn't have a problem with. But once you start getting to 5-7 then Thomas needs to be in the discussion even if he's sitting just on the outside. I have only three guys in tier 1: Brown, Beckham and Jones. Thomas in tier 2. I get what you're saying with the advantages and disadvantages with Brees, but what are the advantages of playing with Watson as purely a thrower? What are the advantages of playing with Andy Dalton? You can't really list a disadvantage about one of the greatest QB's ever when one of the guys in the same tier as Thomas (AJ Green) has played with Andy Dalton for the last 8 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: Even in past years, y'all weren't using him as a deep threat. Why would I just assume he has that ability? Further, he's not elite because he's not elite. It seems even you agree with that, so I'm not sure what point you're making. I think he’s elite. I think he’s right there with Hopkins. I think ODB, Antonio Brown and Julio are a step ahead but he’s nipping at the heels. Much like Hopkins is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: I think he’s elite. I think he’s right there with Hopkins. I think ODB, Antonio Brown and Julio are a step ahead but he’s nipping at the heels. Much like Hopkins is. If you think others are a step above, he's not elite. You can't be outside the top tier and be elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, jrry32 said: If you think others are a step above, he's not elite. You can't be outside the top tier and be elite. I mean... that’s just not true lol. I think for the last 5-7 years Brady has been a very clear step ahead of any QB in the league. Rodgers, Brees and Manning were still elite QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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