Plat2 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Just now, lancerman said: They would have won more if the best team wasn't around, idk if I'd hold them up to any of the teams I mentioned. My point ultimately is that if you put Jordan's Bulls in literally any decade, but the 90's and all of a sudden they have to go through a bunch of All Time teams to win the Finals and I can't see them coming out of another decade as clean as they did in the 90's. Do I think he'd win the 80's. Yeah. Do I think he'd get his 6 and Bird and Magic don't cannabilize a bunch of his success? No way. Same with the 2010's. He isn't three peating with the Heat or GSW around. And I really have a hard time seeing him as conistently getting through the Kobe/Shaq Lakers, the Kobe/Gasol/Bynum Lakers, the Big 3 Celtics, the Heat and the Spurs in the 2000's as he did with all the teams in teh 90's. I get you, like I said we'll never know because its all just hypothetical but I just don't see the 90s as being "weak". It's not one of the more strongest eras like the 80s but it wasn't weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, ET80 said: No, no he did not. This isn't even an opinion, man. You're just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Just now, Plat2 said: I get you, like I said we'll never know because its all just hypothetical but I just don't see the 90s as being "weak". It's not one of the more strongest eras like the 80s but it wasn't weak. I wouldn't say they are weak. Because this whole discussion means we are technically leaving out the Bulls, which is going to hurt the 90's. I'm just say comparatively, Jordan's career was a lot better off for his peak and his best teams being in the 90's when a lot of the 80's stars were on decline and one foot out the door and the stars that would dominate teh 2000's weren't there or were just a bit green before Jordan's second departure. Any era would be worse if you took the best team out of it. I just think a lot of people aren't willing to admit that Jordan's greatness definitley benefitted for the fact that he didn't have to go through the prime Celtics/Lakers/Pistons every year to get a title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Just now, seminoles1 said: This isn't even an opinion, man. You're just plain wrong. How much of those Rockets teams did you watch? I can tell you I watched all of them - in real time, as it was actually happening. You? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 I also want to thank every single person in this thread because I am nervous as hell about the Super Bowl and this basketball debate is taking my mind off of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plat2 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Not trying to turn this to a basketball thread but who do you guys have winning in 1994 if Jordan never retired.....Rockets or Bulls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plat2 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 minute ago, lancerman said: I also want to thank every single person in this thread because I am nervous as hell about the Super Bowl and this basketball debate is taking my mind off of it. Yeah this is great, learning a couple of new things in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Just now, Plat2 said: Not trying to turn this to a basketball thread but who do you guys have winning in 1994 if Jordan never retired.....Rockets or Bulls? I think the Rockets were just going to be on that year. Jordan needed a recharge and the Bulls needed a boost with Rodman overall. I'd probably give the Rockets 65/35 unless Jordan just pulls a massive Lebron 2016 carry job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, ET80 said: How much of those Rockets teams did you watch? I can tell you I watched all of them - in real time, as it was actually happening. You? I didn't watch them live, but I've seen every game from the WCF and Finals from that season. There's a reason 1994 Hakeem is considered one of the only times someone won a title by themselves...because he absolutely carried them and no one else could be relied upon. Ralph Sampson was in his prime and worth the next 2 players on the 1994 Rockets. Throw in John Lucas (though to be fair, he missed the last month of the season and playoffs) and Lewis Lloyd and it's not even a comparison. Edit: Talking about 1986 for not watching live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plat2 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, lancerman said: I just think a lot of people aren't willing to admit that Jordan's greatness definitley benefitted for the fact that he didn't have to go through the prime Celtics/Lakers/Pistons every year to get a title. Well I mean yeah, facing 3 of the greatest basketball dynasties ever will not be good for anybodys career....GOAT or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Plat2 said: Not trying to turn this to a basketball thread but who do you guys have winning in 1994 if Jordan never retired.....Rockets or Bulls? I'm biased, so will defer to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plat2 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, lancerman said: I think the Rockets were just going to be on that year. Jordan needed a recharge and the Bulls needed a boost with Rodman overall. I'd probably give the Rockets 65/35 unless Jordan just pulls a massive Lebron 2016 carry job So Pippen would have to pull a Kyrie? Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, Plat2 said: Not trying to turn this to a basketball thread but who do you guys have winning in 1994 if Jordan never retired.....Rockets or Bulls? That's tough. Probably the Bulls, but the Bulls definitely weren't winning in 1995. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, lancerman said: I think the Rockets were just going to be on that year. Jordan needed a recharge and the Bulls needed a boost with Rodman overall. I'd probably give the Rockets 65/35 unless Jordan just pulls a massive Lebron 2016 carry job They didn't need Rodman yet; they hadn't yet lost Grant. I agree they probably needed a recharge, but that's hard to quantify. The Bulls were definitely more talented, but Hakeem was an absolute terror and the Bulls wouldn't have been able to stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: I didn't watch them live, but I've seen every game from the WCF and Finals from that season. Ok. 11 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: There's a reason 1994 Hakeem is considered one of the only times someone won a title by themselves...because he absolutely carried them and no one else could be relied upon. I don't understand why this is a narrative. Clyde Drexler was a SIGNIFICANT part of that team turning up the heat once the playoffs started. I will absolutely stand on the table to say that Clyde in 94 is equal to Sampson in 86 (who I loved to death, but was starting to show effects of injuries). His shot to end the series is the stuff of legend, but Clyde was huge in 1994. Rockets don't beat the Suns without Clyde putting in 20+ a night in that series. 11 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: Throw in John Lucas (though to be fair, he missed the last month of the season and playoffs) and Lewis Lloyd and it's not even a comparison. John Lucas was dealing with a host of demons at that time - and this is probably the driver of why I'm not high on the supporting cast. Lucas, Wiggins and Lloyd had significant issues that more or less diminish their value to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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