resilient part 2 Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, amac said: I mean, could it be anything else? Pretty much the nature of most sports debates anyway. While everything you said is true the problem is people will talk in definitive manners like there's some sort of factual or scientific proof that someone like Jordan is the greatest when we really have no idea. I think I can make a strong argument that Bill Russell had a greater impact to helping his team win doing the things that he did with his skill-set than Jordan. And yet there's no way to prove it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, champ11 said: LeBron is one of the best playmakers of all time....I feel like he 100% has always made players around him better. Maybe Kyrie, K Love, Bosh etc had better stats in other situations...but were they winning championships? Or playoff series? Nope. Strongly disagree with this statement. Just using one example was Kevin Love. Kevin Love was considered a top player in the league and possibly the best power forward before he arrived with Cleveland. Once he arrived in Cleveland he's struggled many many times just to find his fit and his role. He was nowhere near as dominant if even dominant at all throughout all his years with Cleveland and I'm talking about when he was healthy. Despite his contributions that I won championship for the most part he's been quite a disappointment in comparison to hit the level that he played with on Minnesota. But yet another example that comes to mind quickly was Dwyane Wade. Dwyane Wade has made this statement that Miami did not start winning initially until he decided to concede to LeBron that LeBron would be the main guy and everyone else including himself would be second seed. Dwyane Wade could have made the argument that was his team, Miami and that he had every bit of a right to be the go-to guy. But he didn't. Instead they started winning after he relented his position as the go-to guy basically Dwyane Wade and Kevin Love sacrificed their game and their abilities for the sake of the team to win a championship. But LeBron sacrifice nothing as he actually the man with the ball more and more and more despite having very good All-Star teammates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 Just to continue to thought, Chris Bosh also became very much a spot-up shooter instead of his all-around inside-outside game once LeBron arrived with him in Miami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 Last but not least Kyrie Irving. One can make the argument Kyrie played better with LeBron. And that may be the case. But more likely Kyrie absolutely had zero help and was getting totally sandwiched on Cleveland until LeBron got there. Once LeBron got there that allowed to Kyrie Irving some more freedom. But Kyrie Irving playing this year without LeBron has played better than he's ever played before and I can't imagine Kyrie playing this well with LeBron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 hours ago, beekay414 said: Jordan might be the most overrated player in the history of sports tbh Was he ever outscored by Jason Terry in the finals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, resilient part 2 said: Strongly disagree with this statement. Just using one example was Kevin Love. Kevin Love was considered a top player in the league and possibly the best power forward before he arrived with Cleveland. Once he arrived in Cleveland he's struggled many many times just to find his fit and his role. He was nowhere near as dominant if even dominant at all throughout all his years with Cleveland and I'm talking about when he was healthy. Despite his contributions that I won championship for the most part he's been quite a disappointment in comparison to hit the level that he played with on Minnesota. But yet another example that comes to mind quickly was Dwyane Wade. Dwyane Wade has made this statement that Miami did not start winning initially until he decided to concede to LeBron that LeBron would be the main guy and everyone else including himself would be second seed. Dwyane Wade could have made the argument that was his team, Miami and that he had every bit of a right to be the go-to guy. But he didn't. Instead they started winning after he relented his position as the go-to guy basically Dwyane Wade and Kevin Love sacrificed their game and their abilities for the sake of the team to win a championship. But LeBron sacrifice nothing as he actually the man with the ball more and more and more despite having very good All-Star teammates K Love as a "top player in the league" couldn't make the playoffs. K Love next to LeBron was a great player on a championship team. There is no doubt players have to fall back when playing next to a ball dominant player like Bron- but I wouldn't necessarily say that is LeBron not making his teammates better. I'd argue...why would LeBron sacrifice more when the results were championships and he was the far superior player? I can see the idea that LeBron could have gotten better off ball throughout his career and that may have helped him......but I just don't really see this idea of guys needing to fall back as a tarnish on his legacy. Just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminence Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 KING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 hours ago, seminoles1 said: I'm guessing Jordan is your pick for GOAT. If this is your main point, then who did Jordan make better? Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 hours ago, seminoles1 said: Prove #2. People hated playing with Jordan Name one. Edit: maybe Bill Cartwright? But nothing definitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 As far as legacy I think he goes down as one of the greats. Amazing floor vision, facilitator and eventual clutchness (that a word?) Things I've never liked about him: very passive for the first 2/3s of his career, he gets a pass for low effort Defense, the whole acting like he's been sniped from the top row when any kind of contact takes place. Despite all he's accomplished I think he could've done more had he been more "never-die". My opinion, top 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Chiefs_5627 said: Pip You mean the guy who was the 5th overall pick and had his best season without MJ? Sorry if I don't give credit to MJ for Pippen becoming a great player when everyone expected it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMossIsBoss Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Don't think his legacy can change too much much. Those who already think he is the GOAT aren't going to change their tune considering he is on his way out of his prime, if not already out of it. Those who think Jordan is the GOAT likely are judging on their peak accomplishments and performances, and it's pretty likely we've already seen that for Lebron considering he might be 35 the next time we see him in the postseason. Personally would say he's easily a top 10 player ever. I' have him as my 2nd best non-big: MJ, LBJ, Bird, Magic, Kobe. In that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Chiefs_5627 said: Name one. Edit: maybe Bill Cartwright? But nothing definitive Kwame Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 4 hours ago, dtait93 said: Kinda hilarious typing it but Lebron needs Lonzo not only to take over ball control duties but also for his defense. He'll never admit it though. LeBron doesn't even hold the ball all that much now to be honest. That's not the issue, but obviously Lonzo would help with the way he pushes the ball and gets others lay ups. And his great defense goes without saying. 3 hours ago, resilient part 2 said: I don't know if I'm very good points concerning LeBron in my opinion I don't get this… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resilient part 2 Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said: I don't get this… My bad , voice typos, I was trying to say you made some very good points concerning LeBron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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