BowserBroncos Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, ny92mike said: I disagree. But it doesn't matter this team has made enough moves that i cant get behind. I thought is was pretty stupid of them to extend his contract and turn around and trade him. They last millions in doing so and dead money matters. This franchise has 30+ million in dead money. And don't make sense too. You are going to trade your top WR, that is one of the best in the league, still very young, why don't trade him before extend him? And if you are going to trade him now is because you are going to a full rebuild.....but you are going to make that rebuild around who? Eli? NYG better draft their new QB (or trade for Rosen if the Cardinals are really that stupid) to build a team around him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 They're still more than 25 mil under the cap and could always get more by dumping Eli. You ought to complain about contracts like Rhett Ellison or Kareem Martin, your 7th and 8th highest paid players who aren't very good. Depending on whether Murray goes first overall in the draft, you might have to trade up to make sure you get Haskins. But once you have your QB of the future, you can start rebuilding your defense. You'll probably take some lumps if the rookie QB plays a lot but you'll have a lot of cap space cleared for future use. You can probably get a Devin Bush or DeAndre Baker at 17 and a receiver at 37, maybe KNeal Harry. Sign a couple of good defensive free agents in 2020 and you'll be back in the playoff chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 36 minutes ago, sparky151 said: OBJ also misses a lot of games. Giants got a pretty good haul for him, 2 picks and a player. It would have been better to deal him last year but dead money isn't actually very important. If the Giants need cap space Eli is the first place to make a cut. They can sign a vet like McCown or someone to show the rookie the ropes instead of paying Eli 17 to not be very good. Are you implying that being able to roll over $16M from 2019 into 2020 is not very important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, squire12 said: Are you implying that being able to roll over $16M from 2019 into 2020 is not very important? The dead money is just accounting. It's not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, sparky151 said: They're still more than 25 mil under the cap and could always get more by dumping Eli. You ought to complain about contracts like Rhett Ellison or Kareem Martin, your 7th and 8th highest paid players who aren't very good. Depending on whether Murray goes first overall in the draft, you might have to trade up to make sure you get Haskins. But once you have your QB of the future, you can start rebuilding your defense. You'll probably take some lumps if the rookie QB plays a lot but you'll have a lot of cap space cleared for future use. You can probably get a Devin Bush or DeAndre Baker at 17 and a receiver at 37, maybe KNeal Harry. Sign a couple of good defensive free agents in 2020 and you'll be back in the playoff chase. Should have had the core in place and then got the QB not the other way around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 Because by the time the core is built you have to pay that QB a second contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 15 minutes ago, jrry32 said: The dead money is just accounting. It's not a big deal. Dead money is a big deal if it's accumulated the way this GM has done it. Sure there are situations where a good trade warrants some dead money or retirements and there many under a million contracts. However, I'm talking about dead money. There was the JPP trade of 15 million, in 2018 Odell Beckham, Jr. $16,000,000 Olivier Vernon $8,000,000 Damon Harrison $3,200,000 Patrick Omameh $3,000,000 Eli Apple $2,304,968 Davis Webb $383,210 Connor Barwin $365,000 Jonathan Stewart $250,000 Darian Thompson $209,284 Avery Moss $127,384 Jerell Adams $35,716 Calvin Munson $3,334 Josh Banks $834 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 1 minute ago, ny92mike said: Dead money is a big deal if it's accumulated the way this GM has done it. Sure there are situations where a good trade warrants some dead money or retirements and there many under a million contracts. However, I'm talking about dead money. There was the JPP trade of 15 million, in 2018 Odell Beckham, Jr. $16,000,000 Olivier Vernon $8,000,000 Damon Harrison $3,200,000 Patrick Omameh $3,000,000 Eli Apple $2,304,968 Davis Webb $383,210 Connor Barwin $365,000 Jonathan Stewart $250,000 Darian Thompson $209,284 Avery Moss $127,384 Jerell Adams $35,716 Calvin Munson $3,334 Josh Banks $834 Gettleman sucks, but the dead money is money that was already paid (as you know). Thus, it accelerating and not being able to be rolled over isn't significant. You can simply restructure contracts into the future to open the same amount of cap now and fill the same amount of cap in future years that would have been used had OBJ not been traded. It's purely accounting. You can move money around with relative ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowserBroncos Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 27 minutes ago, Counselor said: Because by the time the core is built you have to pay that QB a second contract But when you have the QB in a rookie deal, it's easier to build that core by signing or trading for key players....just like Rams did and what Browns are doing. If the Giants believe in one of those guys of this draft....it's better that they do something to secure that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, BowserBroncos said: But when you have the QB in a rookie deal, it's easier to build that core by signing or trading for key players....just like Rams did and what Browns are doing. If the Giants believe in one of those guys of this draft....it's better that they do something to secure that guy. Well yes but my point is don’t dismantle your core when you have a player like OBJ. Go get your QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 31 minutes ago, sparky151 said: They're still more than 25 mil under the cap and could always get more by dumping Eli. You ought to complain about contracts like Rhett Ellison or Kareem Martin, your 7th and 8th highest paid players who aren't very good. Depending on whether Murray goes first overall in the draft, you might have to trade up to make sure you get Haskins. But once you have your QB of the future, you can start rebuilding your defense. You'll probably take some lumps if the rookie QB plays a lot but you'll have a lot of cap space cleared for future use. You can probably get a Devin Bush or DeAndre Baker at 17 and a receiver at 37, maybe KNeal Harry. Sign a couple of good defensive free agents in 2020 and you'll be back in the playoff chase. I know you aren't a fan of Eli, most of you I don't think are. So, I can understand where you're coming from with this, but for me I'm still a fan. I did complain about the Rhett Ellison contract, but that's old news. I do think that Ellison is a solid pass blocker but the price was too high. Probably complained about Kareem Martin too, but I was completely against the team moving to a 34 defense, so any player that was released or added to fit this new scheme I'm against. This GM and all the hog mollies talk that surrounded this man is a joke. I think he let a solid center walk and everything they did after that with that position was nuts. He overpaid for a RG that didn't even last the year before being forced to release him yet he got paid and we collected more dead money. The LG that everyone seemed to be in love with, I wasn't a fan. I think Hernandez can't pull and more than likely is why Nate Solder struggled so bad. They had no real back up plan for when Flowers didn't workout at RT. My point is that when he joined the team, all of the major problems boiled down to the team needing a better offensive line. Yet he walks in and made it worse. Eli in my opinion isn't the problem, has never been the problem. We just needed a better offensive line. Eli's stats are solid even while having less than 2 seconds to find his target, heck his receivers didn't even have time to get into their route before he was being rushed out. So while the whole website and most of the forum is calling for Eli's release, I simply do not agree, but at this point which the way they have managed this team, I hope he does retire or is released. What I see what this GM is doing and what the owners are allowing him to do is to completely make this team unrecognizable to the fan. I don't believe that this team was so bad or that the players were so bad that a complete overhaul was needed to revive it. All of this trading big name players was completely unnecessary in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Gettleman sucks, but the dead money is money that was already paid (as you know). Thus, it accelerating and not being able to be rolled over isn't significant. You can simply restructure contracts into the future to open the same amount of cap now and fill the same amount of cap in future years that would have been used had OBJ not been traded. It's purely accounting. You can move money around with relative ease. My point about the dead money is that is shows poor management. I never said anything about it rolling over. Smart teams don't extend a players contract only to trade him at the end of the season. You know that signing bonus money is paid up front and that what we see as SB money is only for accounting purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, ny92mike said: My point about the dead money is that is shows poor management. I never said anything about it rolling over. Smart teams don't extend a players contract only to trade him at the end of the season. You know that signing bonus money is paid up front and that what we see as SB money is only for accounting purposes. I responded to Squire, who was talking about roll-over money. You responded to me. I clarified my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny92mike Posted March 15, 2019 Author Share Posted March 15, 2019 Just now, jrry32 said: I responded to Squire, who was talking about roll-over money. You responded to me. I clarified my point. Sorry man if that came off rude. The way I see this is I'm watching a front office just completely blow up this team, when I don't think it was needed at all. We had good players on this roster, now I don't see many that I even know. I think what Gettleman and the Owners are doing to this team is just a nightmare. I'm saddened by it and as horrible of a job that I think Gettleman is doing, people are trying to justify it, which I can't get on board with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted March 15, 2019 Share Posted March 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, ny92mike said: Sorry man if that came off rude. The way I see this is I'm watching a front office just completely blow up this team, when I don't think it was needed at all. We had good players on this roster, now I don't see many that I even know. I think what Gettleman and the Owners are doing to this team is just a nightmare. I'm saddened by it and as horrible of a job that I think Gettleman is doing, people are trying to justify it, which I can't get on board with. Justifying is all we fans can do. Gettleman was a terrible hire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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