Heinz D. Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 minute ago, beardown3231 said: Davis will be fine. He's quite possibly going to carry the ball 9-10 times per game. That's all they need. You don't think he can be leaned on for that? I'm not sure, and don't see how the staff would be, either. I also am not sure that Nagy wants a true RBBC, or that consistently getting Patterson a lot of touches as runner is a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: Can anyone really mention a not qualified positive about Howard that does not involve referencing 2016? Yup.....2057 yds rushing and 18 tds over two seasons, 2017-18 and why the hell are we still focusing on Howard? Whether we got his best or his best is yet to come is a moot point for us. He's gone. Pace revised the receiver core in 2018 so as has been pointed out ad nauseum it would only make sense he'd tackle RB this year after it became a disappointment in 2018. Howard was a trade target last fall and had we not been winning so much Pace may have traded him then. Let's talk about what a new backfield should look like. Someone good to pair with Davis whose not Jordan Howard v2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Davis started one game last year, against AZ, and played very well given the opportunity. Go back and watch that game if you are poo pooing him Yeah, AZ was a bad team, but their defense was playing good at the time and had a lot of talent on the field. Davis was behind a better player for most of season, but he is a good slightly above average running back in this league. He was clearly a better player than Howard in 2018. He isn't a great receiver in terms of a guy who can line up and be a mismatch, but he catches the ball every time it is thrown to him. I watched 3-4 games with zero drops and some nice catches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Yeah, AZ was a bad team, but their defense was playing good at the time and had a lot of talent on the field. Howard @AZ 2018 Week 3: 24/61/1; 2/20/0 receiving Davis @AZ 2018 Week 4: 21/101/2; 4/23/0 receiving Not saying. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Heinz D. said: And what happens if you remove last season? Take out the most recent statistical data when evaluating the present value of a depreciating good? Sure, why not? 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Nagy says he sees more out of Patterson that just a guy who'll be used on a few jet sweeps so he may see more than just 30-40 rushes but this early on who can tell? Nagy says a lot of things his brain conceives of but when he puts together game plans and makes play calls some of that goes bye bye. I think how much he's used as a RB may depend on who else we pair with Davis and we don't have that guy on the roster yet or at least I hope we don't. I'd like to see Cohen at RB a little bit more often but again who we pair with Davis may have an impact. What if we draft Darrell Henderson and he's tearing it up. Who will lose carries to him? Will it be Davis or Cohen? It's tough to project 'til we know whose playing all RB positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: Can anyone really mention a not qualified positive about Howard that does not involve referencing 2016? He seemed to be a pretty decent passblocker. Not in Elliott's level but still good. ...thats about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 10 minutes ago, soulman said: Nagy says he sees more out of Patterson that just a guy who'll be used on a few jet sweeps so he may see more than just 30-40 rushes but this early on who can tell? Nagy says a lot of things his brain conceives of but when he puts together game plans and makes play calls some of that goes bye bye. I think how much he's used as a RB may depend on who else we pair with Davis and we don't have that guy on the roster yet or at least I hope we don't. I'd like to see Cohen at RB a little bit more often but again who we pair with Davis may have an impact. What if we draft Darrell Henderson and he's tearing it up. Who will lose carries to him? Will it be Davis or Cohen? It's tough to project 'til we know whose playing all RB positions. My only concern with Cohen getting more carries is that he’s not very effective between the tackles. I was actually really pleased with his usage last year - Nagy did a really good job getting him the ball in space where he can be most effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Howard @AZ 2018 Week 3: 24/61/1; 2/20/0 receiving Davis @AZ 2018 Week 4: 21/101/2; 4/23/0 receiving Not saying. Just saying. Not a stat guy, but that is pretty compelling evidence. I watched tape and it tells same story. Night and day performances against same competition with almost identical opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Heinz D. said: That's spurious, at best. We've all seen players bounce back from subpar seasons. You know that as well as anybody. Hopefully the Bears get a better fit, and a better player, in the draft. Because right now, I'm not seeing a guy they can lean on currently on the roster. And who knows--maybe you'll end up being right about Howard and he'll be out of the league soon. I don't see any way someone could put forth that point with much certainty, though. 3 straight years of decline. That is a trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said: My only concern with Cohen getting more carries is that he’s not very effective between the tackles. I was actually really pleased with his usage last year - Nagy did a really good job getting him the ball in space where he can be most effective. I agree. Keep Cohen mostly outside. Patterson is 6'1 235 lbs. and accelerates like a drag car. Ideal for power/gap. I am not the coach obviously, but I would envision Cohen split and Patterson in backfield or both split and Patterson motioning to backfield or not. Play would be called at LOS depending on what defense does. You have the whole passing playbook because Cohen can run route tree. Only downside is Patterson probably can't protect very well if you keep him in to block, who cares? Use him as check down player then and dump it to him. That will slow them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 37 minutes ago, soulman said: Yup.....2057 yds rushing and 18 tds over two seasons, 2017-18 and why the hell are we still focusing on Howard? Whether we got his best or his best is yet to come is a moot point for us. He's gone. Pace revised the receiver core in 2018 so as has been pointed out ad nauseum it would only make sense he'd tackle RB this year after it became a disappointment in 2018. Howard was a trade target last fall and had we not been winning so much Pace may have traded him then. Let's talk about what a new backfield should look like. Someone good to pair with Davis whose not Jordan Howard v2.0. 2057 yards is only impressive if it is reached efficiently. 18 TDs is impressive if 90% of them were not from 5 yards and in. The raw stats look better than we know the performance was. He was average in 2017 and bad in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 In terms of guys to replace him Darrell Henderson Miles Sanders Trayveon Williams Damien Harris I think all 4 have the hands and the flash that Howard lacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: My only concern with Cohen getting more carries is that he’s not very effective between the tackles. I was actually really pleased with his usage last year - Nagy did a really good job getting him the ball in space where he can be most effective. Time for "The Cohen Package". I wouldn't expect him to be running straight ahead plays between the tackles but with zone blocking where he has a clear cut back lane and one guy to beat in the second level, delays, and even shovel passes should work. Until we have another back whose as explosive and threatening as he is I just want him getting more touches. But then, he's also a pretty effective decoy because they have to account for him wherever he lines up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: 2057 yards is only impressive if it is reached efficiently. 18 TDs is impressive if 90% of them were not from 5 yards and in. The raw stats look better than we know the performance was. He was average in 2017 and bad in 2018. Meh, a score is a score whether it's from 5 yards in or not. I count points as well as yardage. Harken back to the days of Matt Forte when the rap on him was he wasn't a good short yardage or goaline back. He only had one 9 td season in his entire career, Howard had two back to back. And I'm not claiming 2057 yards is impressive but it is productive and IMHO we may not have waltzed into the playoffs so easily without Howard's performance during December. He produced when he needed to. 2018 was worse for any number of reasons we all observed one of which was a change in our blocking scheme, another was missing Long for half a season, and a third was the reason he's been traded. He didn't fit the concept Nagy had for him in his offense. That's not his fault. Look, I've been playing guitar and bass for over 40 years and I'm both good and experienced at both as far as what I know musically. But ask me to play riff laden Metal or BeBop Jazz and I'm gonna struggle a bit with that. It's not my game, but it doesn't make me a lousy musician. You eliminated 2016 and asked what Howard had produced over the last two seasons that made him valuable to us. My answer is what I believe and while I accept other may not agree it's still just a matter of opinion. I'm not willing to discount what he did period, end of story. But it's the end of an era Windy. For cripes sake move on brother or are we gonna keep digging this up and trying to rebury it 'til draft weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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