BayRaider Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: I don't get this logic. I'd rather have Russell Wilson over any QB on a rookie contract except Mahommes for the next 5 years. The age difference is significant enough to make like 3-4 other guys worth it for a career. But, the "boatload" of cap space is hardly a factor. You don't need to save that 20M cap space to win a championship. That doesn't buy you much at all in the free agent market. 20M? Russells new contract will be 35 per year guaranteed. People always underestimate the impact of these QB contracts.... even 20M can get you 3-4 above average starters if you sign the right scheme fit players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, BayRaider said: 20M? Russells new contract will be 35 per year guaranteed. People always underestimate the impact of these QB contracts.... even 20M can get you 3-4 above average starters if you sign the right scheme fit players. Above average non-elite starters are guys like Trent Brown, Za'Darius Smith, CJ Mosley... When you subtract the cost of a first round rookie in the middle of their rookie contract you can't even get 2 of them assuming your $35M figure is right. And again, I'd rather have the better QB than one or two additional non-elite but good player somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, wackywabbit said: Above average non-elite starters are guys like Trent Brown, Za'Darius Smith, CJ Mosley... When you subtract the cost of a first round rookie in the middle of their rookie contract you can't even get 2 of them assuming your $35M figure is right. And again, I'd rather have the better QB than one or two additional non-elite but good player somewhere else. Since 2012 a QB on a rookie contract has won the SB every year outside of Denvers Elite D in ‘15 and Tom Brady on an extreme paycut usually earning around 17M. Not to mention he’s the best QB in the league. It does matter. Way more than people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywabbit Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: Since 2012 a QB on a rookie contract has won the SB every year outside of Denvers Elite D in ‘15 and Tom Brady on an extreme paycut usually earning around 17M. Not to mention he’s the best QB in the league. It does matter. Way more than people think. You are throwing out a lot of super bowls with your Brady and Manning exceptions. Also, most NFL PLAYERS at any point in time are on rookie contracts, not just super bowl winning QBs. And that's a big reason why the cap space thing doesn't matter as much as people think. Foles wasn't on a rookie contract either. Flacco was a pre-rookie wage scale first round QB, so not super cheap. So really under the new rookie wage scale only 1 QB has won a super bowl on their rookie contract. That's way less than the ratio of starting QBs on a rookie wage scale contract, which is like half, so there is really no favorable trend shown there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 On 4/6/2019 at 8:39 PM, RaidersAreOne said: Definitely more than 3 1sts. I'd instantly pull the trigger of #4, #24 and #27 for a legit young franchise QB. I'd probably offer 4-5 1sts. The question is really what is a franchise QB Are we talking Derek Carr Are we talking Matt Ryan Are we talking young Aaron Rodgers etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDotNova Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I mean, the price would be steep. I'm not trading Darnold unless I'm guaranteed someone who I think is going to as good. In which case, the other team should just take the comparable QB. It would have to be a situation where a team holds the first pick like Arizona and I like the QB in the draft more. I personally wouldn't do this trade. But something like Darnold for the 1st overall pick, 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick and a 2020 1st Round. Again, this is completely unrealistic because there's no way the Jets are trading Darnold. We are too investing in him. Not saying Darnold has proven to be FQB. But he is a young QB with promise which I think falls within this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 hours ago, BayRaider said: Since 2012 a QB on a rookie contract has won the SB every year outside of Denvers Elite D in ‘15 and Tom Brady on an extreme paycut usually earning around 17M. Not to mention he’s the best QB in the league. It does matter. Way more than people think. You are using an extremely small sample size. Especially when your argument is dependent on excluding teams that account for 4 of the 7 Super Bowl victories since 2012. Broncos made it twice since 2012 despite paying Manning a lot of money. Panthers went 15-1 and made it after giving Newton a new contract. Saints probably would have made it last year if the call went the other way, and they have rebuilt nicely despite paying Brees a lot of money for years. Ryan wasn't on a rookie deal when the Falcons went to the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megatechpc Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 hours ago, mission27 said: The question is really what is a franchise QB Are we talking Derek Carr Are we talking Matt Ryan Are we talking young Aaron Rodgers etc Well, I'd argue that all three of those guys are definitely franchise QB's. Obviously they are first, second, and third tier franchise QB's, but they are all three proven guys that you can build a team around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 You would have to be a true wack job to trade them away at all. Unless you're either incredibly intoxicated when you make the decision, or Matt Millen, I wouldn't expect anybody to make that trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megatechpc Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 I dunno, with the hit-rate teams have been enjoying lately in the draft perhaps its not quite as rare as it used to be to find a franchise QB these days? If somebody's willing to give me 5 first-rounders for my young QB then that is not a deal I am going to just disregard out of hand. Depends a LOT on just how much I like the QB (or don't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 hour ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said: You would have to be a true wack job to trade them away at all. Unless you're either incredibly intoxicated when you make the decision, or Matt Millen, I wouldn't expect anybody to make that trade. 6 1sts for Andrew Luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said: 6 1sts for Andrew Luck? He isn't on a rookie contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted April 10, 2019 Author Share Posted April 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, C0LTSFAN4L1F3 said: He isn't on a rookie contract True what would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0LTSFAN4L1F3 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: True what would you do? Not really sure, but if he was on a rookie contract I definitely wouldn't trade him. Too much value for a franchise QB on a rookie contract to be replicated with some draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emaw1979 Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Mahomes is about as untradeable as they come. MVP QB at 23. Becoming the face of the NFL. Very likeable. I don't know if 5 first rounders would be enough. He's a generational talent. I think Baker Mayfield is probably #2 at the position for highest trade value due to Wentz's injury history. With the long suffering that franchise had 4 probably isn't enough for them to trade him. There's a lot more unknown here than Mahomes so i wouldn't offer 4 if I was a team though so we'd be at an impasse. I think that's it. I wouldn't offer 3 1st rounders for Darnold, Wentz (Injury history), Watson, Dak etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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