MacReady Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, beekay414 said: I'm sorry but I can't argue with someone who thinks we'd be better off with Nick Foles. A guy with a career 62% completion percentage and 7.0 YPA. You know, the same numbers you're trying to knock Aaron for. Nick Foles is a capable postseason QB. Regular season eh, he hasn’t shown it often, although he did have a hell of a season with Chip Kelly. He’s up and down. Maybe not Nick Foles, but at the same time maybe. You keep pointing to people when my overarching point is an idea. You cannot win in this league paying your QB the kind of money we are paying Rodgers. You can in the regular season, not the post season. The way to win is to put talent around a capable QB and hope he puts it together in the regular season while paying them a modest amount (Eli Manning/Nick Foles), have a QB on a rookie contract (Russell Wilson, Ben Roethoisberger), have an elite QB who gets paid less than they are worth (Brady), go all-in and wreck your salary cap so you’re not competitive for 6 years and go 7-9 as often as you make the playoffs (Saints with Brees, Broncos currently with the only difference being Broncos went all in on Peyton’s last year). If we were paying 30-year old Rodgers this money we’re fine. He’s not 30 and he’s had two broken collarbones. You can laugh all you want, but yes, I believe we would be better off saving 18 million at QB for a placeholder until we can draft a QB in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 13 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: We haven't throw the damn deep ball all year. This post should've been made 2 years ago. Thank goodness for the Detroit game, we missed a majority of them but it was so refreshing to see the ball travel over 20 yards consistently. Again your gripes with Rodgers are rarely accurate. Aaron kills drives by holding the ball and not making tight window throws due to the micro managing stye of ball security he has. He doesn't take risks. I agree there is probably a healthy number of INTs a QB must throw to sustain a healthy line between risk reward in an offense 7-10 is probably it, 15 is way too high. You need to stop with the notion that Rodgers is this checkdown hating guy who stares down WRs and RBs who are open to run around and create deep passes. Old narrative. He needs to start making the tight window throws he's paid to make and take some risks to run a healthy offense. Well @AlexGreen#20 has literally shown with visual evidence that this is exactly what Rodgers does. Multiple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Well @AlexGreen#20 has literally shown with visual evidence that this is exactly what Rodgers does. Multiple times. He could show that for any QB on most plays, we don't know the progressions nor are we looking through a frame with 5 OL and 4-6 pass rushers either. I'm not saying he never has missed an open receiver but it's overblown by some. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said: He could show that for any QB on most plays, we don't know the progressions nor are we looking through a frame with 5 OL and 4-6 pass rushers either. I'm not saying he never has missed an open receiver but it's overblown by some. Under blown by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Trace Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 43 minutes ago, beekay414 said: You can't just use raw numbers and say "we'd be better off with him" because that's simply not how it works. You can say "so and so and their salary" yet we have no clue how that salary would be put to use or if it would even work out. Conjecture can only get you so far. You're speaking in absolutes and it's nothing but that, conjecture. Yeah, this is some Madden logic at work here (the vidya, not the coach). I can haz AJ Grenn with Nicc Folse and put up 70 TD's per year ~ take THAT aaron rodger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 9 minutes ago, Gopher Trace said: Yeah, this is some Madden logic at work here (the vidya, not the coach). I can haz AJ Grenn with Nicc Folse and put up 70 TD's per year ~ take THAT aaron rodger! Do you think the Chiefs will be able to afford Hardman/Watkins/Kelsey/their offensive line/Hill when they pay Mahomes? The Chiefs are in for just as rude an awakening as we were when we had to lose Jennings/Driver/Nelson’s prime as we had to invest less in offense due to Aaron’s contract. If you mean it’s Madden logic by the logic that in Madden as well as in reality the more you pay your QB the less you can pay your other offensive players then you’re absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Trace Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Do you think the Chiefs will be able to afford Hardman/Watkins/Kelsey/their offensive line/Hill when they pay Mahomes? The Chiefs are in for just as rude an awakening as we were when we had to lose Jennings/Driver/Nelson’s prime as we had to invest less in offense due to Aaron’s contract. If you mean it’s Madden logic by the logic that in Madden as well as in reality the more you pay your QB the less you can pay your other offensive players then you’re absolutely right. We had to lose Driver and Nelson's prime? That's news to me. Driver played out his whole career here and Nelson all but his last one, and he was clearly not his old self after returning from the ACL. Jennings still had a few more good ones left, but Rodgers's contract at the time really was not the reason we let him go (we had a lot of good receivers at the time and MIN was offering stupid money to WRs that offseason). More to the point, of course you have less money to pay other guys after you pony-up for the QB. Nobody here disputes that. At some level, you are not simply paying for good QB play, you are also paying that money to avoid being the Browns, the Dolphins, the Redskins, the Jaguars, the Bears ... you get the idea, teams that have had to suffer years -- even decades -- of futility solely due to not being able to find someone competent (much less good) at 1 position. Sure, some of them have had good years here and there but it was nothing sustainable, again due to 1 player. It's not production that makes QBs expensive, it's scarcity. Edited December 31, 2019 by Gopher Trace typo 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 4 hours ago, St Vince said: Did he say that? I never noticed bad footwork before that first calf injury. I thought he said something like that years ago but I could be mistaken.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Trace Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Come to think of it, you could add Tampa Bay to that list. Josh Freeman still owns that team's longevity-based passing records. Jameis is pretty much Freeman 2.0. Titans, as well, seeing as Mariotta basically is a bust and now they are trotting out Tannehill's mediocre arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: Nick Foles paid 18 million less gives us AJ Green PLUS whomever we could afford with Rodgers. We’d be just fine. Aaron’s elite plays are negated by his unwillingness to throw to open receivers or give them any chance at all on 75% of his deep balls. Like I said before, your beef seems to be Rodgers isn't good enough for the money we are paying him. ALL of the QBs are overpaid (athletes and entertainers in general are) but that's the going rate right now. Just some are getting more than others. If you want to grouse about a QB getting overpaid just look at the Vikes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Just now, Pugger said: Like I said before, your beef seems to be Rodgers isn't good enough for the money we are paying him. ALL of the QBs are overpaid (athletes and entertainers in general are) but that's the going rate right now. Just some are getting more than others. If you want to grouse about a QB getting overpaid just look at the Vikes... NFL QBs are not overpaid from a revenue production standpoint. We literally have a cap built in to limit players earning. If your industry has to artificially lessen how much you can be paid . . . You're not overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Just now, AlexGreen#20 said: NFL QBs are not overpaid from a revenue production standpoint. We literally have a cap built in to limit players earning. If your industry has to artificially lessen how much you can be paid . . . You're not overpaid. I know what you are saying but I still think all entertainers are overpaid, if you get my meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Just now, Pugger said: I know what you are saying but I still think all entertainers are overpaid, if you get my meaning. I understand what you're saying, and you're viewpoint is incongruous with reality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, Pugger said: Like I said before, your beef seems to be Rodgers isn't good enough for the money we are paying him. ALL of the QBs are overpaid (athletes and entertainers in general are) but that's the going rate right now. Just some are getting more than others. If you want to grouse about a QB getting overpaid just look at the Vikes... Rookie contract quarterbacks are not overpaid. Get us one dating a supermodel billionaire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 21 minutes ago, Gopher Trace said: We had to lose Driver and Nelson's prime? That's news to me. Driver played out his whole career here and Nelson all but his last one, and he was clearly not his old self after returning from the ACL. Jennings still had a few more good ones left, but Rodgers's contract at the time really was not the reason we let him go (we had a lot of good receivers at the time and MIN was offering stupid money to WRs that offseason). More to the point, of course you have less money to pay other guys after you pony-up for the QB. Nobody here disputes that. At some level, you are not simply paying for good QB play, you are also paying that money to avoid being the Browns, the Dolphins, the Redskins, the Jaguars, the Bears ... you get the idea, teams that have had to suffer years -- even decades -- of futility solely due to not being able to find someone competent (much less good) at 1 position. Sure, some of them have had good years here and there but it was nothing sustainable, again due to 1 player. It's not production that makes QBs expensive, it's scarcity. Quarterbacks are not scarce anymore. That is a thing of the past. The top 16 franchises in this league will never go 4 years without a competent/good QB again. Look at the teams that struggle to find a QB. They’re always the same. When was the last time the Bengals had a good QB? So long Andy Dalton confuses them into thinking he was an option. I get that’s how it used to be. It’s no longer how it is. The first team to realize that and trade that franchise QB instead of re-signing them will show that. As far as Driver/Nelson, my point was we lost THEIR prime, not lost them in their prime, without the money to replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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