Who is better, Brees vs Favre

[Abe56]

Brees for me

[RedRider]

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Lol oh yeah?

Yes.

[Kiwibrown]

Favre was the best QB of the mid to late 90's and was spoke being GOATish at the time. Bree's has never been regarded as any of those things in his time in the NFL. Bree's is more efficient, Frave is more awesome in a moment. Bree's is calculated, Favre plays things a bit street ball. Favre has more natural charisma, Brees has a very manicured persona. 

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, RedRider said:

Yes.

No.

[RuralBill]

5 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

No.

Oh hey, another poster who passes his beliefs as facts, and is close-minded to anything else. There's another one for the ignore list. 

 

Brees will win this, but I'll say it's about even. I do think Brees has some obvious advantages some posters may overlook. As stated in the other Brees debates on the older forum, Brees is in the perfect situation for a QB.  Each year, he plays half of his games in a home dome and another three in Tampa, Carolina, and the Georgia Dome (and now their new dome). He is in the most pass happy offense in the history of football. He plays QB in the most QB friendly era in the history of football. His weapons change frequently, but they are always above average to great. His defenses are consistently crap so he's always playing from behind. The three pass defenses in his division have been notoriously bad. On the contrary, Favre played every single one of his 19 seasons way up north, most at Lambeau. He consistently had great defenses/pass defenses in his division, including the 2000's Bears and Minnesota's late 1990's and late 2000's defenses. 

 

Now in regards to putting them in a vacuum and analyzing as actual players. If you can get past their personas - hillbilly gunslinger Favre and nice guy calculating Brees - they are not that different and there's not much seperation. People like to say Brees is mechanical and plays smart, but he really likes to fit the ball into tight windows and throws a lot of interceptions - much like Favre. They both have an incredible understanding of the game and QB position, and both can read defenses like a book (Favre only in his later years). What separates them is one excels in arm strength, durability, and miraculous plays (Favre), while the other excels at accuracy and not throwing horrible interceptions (Brees).

So with all that said, I'd say it's about even (gun to head, I'd take Favre) and would gladly take either QB.

[Nzd07]

I think if you surround both with an amazing cast, Brees is better. But when things get a little choppy, I'd rather have Favre. He could really make something out of nothing with that arm and superior mobility. I think I'd take Favre to start a franchise with that in mind.

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, RuralBill said:

Oh hey, another poster who passes his beliefs as facts, and is close-minded to anything else. There's another one for the ignore list. 

 

Brees will win this, but I'll say it's about even. I do think Brees has some obvious advantages some posters may overlook. As stated in the other Brees debates on the older forum, Brees is in the perfect situation for a QB.  Each year, he plays half of his games in a home dome and another three in Tampa, Carolina, and the Georgia Dome (and now their new dome). He is in the most pass happy offense in the history of football. He plays QB in the most QB friendly era in the history of football. His weapons change frequently, but they are always above average to great. His defenses are consistently crap so he's always playing from behind. The three pass defenses in his division have been notoriously bad. On the contrary, Favre played every single one of his 19 seasons way up north, most at Lambeau. He consistently had great defenses/pass defenses in his division, including the 2000's Bears and Minnesota's late 1990's and late 2000's defenses. 

 

Now in regards to putting them in a vacuum and analyzing as actual players. If you can get past their personas - hillbilly gunslinger Favre and nice guy calculating Brees - they are not that different and there's not much seperation. People like to say Brees is mechanical and plays smart, but he really likes to fit the ball into tight windows and throws a lot of interceptions - much like Favre. They both have an incredible understanding of the game and QB position, and both can read defenses like a book (Favre only in his later years). What separates them is one excels in arm strength, durability, and miraculous plays (Favre), while the other excels at accuracy and not throwing horrible interceptions (Brees).

So with all that said, I'd say it's about even (gun to head, I'd take Favre) and would gladly take either QB.

If you are referring to me in that 1st paragraph that's laughable at best. The poster I responded to in the original statement stated "Favre by a considerable amount." That is a joke saying either one "by a considerable amount"

[Buddyboy]

What that list from 2009 suggests is that we have lived through a golden era of QB play.  Not sure it will continue.

[spilltray]

Favre's INTs are really a killer for me. For all the legend, he threw away more close games with stupid picks than he pulled out with great throws. All time great QBs don't throw 6 INTs in a playoff game. They don't float a lame duck in OT at home of the NFCCG. For some reason Favre has this legend as "clutch" and Rodgers "chokes" but Favre threw away more games single handedly than any QB I've ever watched, but because he was Favre, people just shrugged it off. 44 TDs, 30 INTs in the playoffs over his career. 21 TD and 20 INTs post season after Holmgren left. This is not elite QB play.

He had an amazing stretch, as good as anyone, when Holmgren could keep him in check, but other than that stretch around the SB teams, he was more hype than reality.

[Mox]

On 9/2/2017 at 11:45 AM, spilltray said:

Favre's INTs are really a killer for me. For all the legend, he threw away more close games with stupid picks than he pulled out with great throws. All time great QBs don't throw 6 INTs in a playoff game. They don't float a lame duck in OT at home of the NFCCG. For some reason Favre has this legend as "clutch" and Rodgers "chokes" but Favre threw away more games single handedly than any QB I've ever watched, but because he was Favre, people just shrugged it off. 44 TDs, 30 INTs in the playoffs over his career. 21 TD and 20 INTs post season after Holmgren left. This is not elite QB play.

He had an amazing stretch, as good as anyone, when Holmgren could keep him in check, but other than that stretch around the SB teams, he was more hype than reality.

How many all time QB's do you think there are? 1?

[MacReady]

Depends on what you're asking.  Pure talent and skill, it's unquestionably Brett Favre.  Favre pretty much just winged his entire career.

Football IQ, effort, intelligence and ability to take advantage of defenses through that knowledge, it's Brees. 

Add them all up and I'd give the edge to Favre simply because a better coach could have gotten the most out of that.  Favre had a couple bad coaches (Rhodes, Sherman), and his numbers during their time clearly reflects that.

http://www.nfl.com/player/brettfavre/2500606/profile

Look at his numbers between '99 and '95 and compare them to his second years and on with McCarthy and Holmgren.  A lot of that was on him since he didn't always buy in, but when he bought into a system and trusted his team/coach and put the effort in (like he did in 2008 with the Vikings), he was among the best ever. 

Also, compare his '94-'97 seasons to other quarterbacks in that time.  There's no comparison. 

94-97 seasons:
Favre - 145 touchdowns, 56 interceptions (2.6)
Young - 88 touchdowns, 33 interceptions (2.6)
Elway - 96 touchdowns, 49 interceptions (2.0)
Marino - 87 touchdowns, 52 interceptions (1.7)

Even if you take Favre's 94-97 streak and compare it against those three others best four years of their career, the numbers still look good. 

Favre's 94-97 seasons - 145 touchdowns, 56 interceptions (2.6)
Young's best four seasons in touchdowns - 125 touchdowns, 45 interceptions (2.7)
Elways's best four seasons in touchdowns - 104 touchdowns, 49 interceptions (2.1)
Marino's best four seasons in touchdowns - 152 touchdowns, 78 interceptions (1.9)

That's just to give you perspective on the other best quarterbacks who played in Favre's era. 

Now consider the different era Favre played the majority of his career in.  Now take his 94-97 season and compare it with Drew's best four seasons:

Favre's 94-97 seasons - 145 touchdowns, 56 interceptions (2.6)
Brees' best four seasons in touchdowns - 165 touchdowns, 60 interceptions (2.75)
Favre's best four seasons in touchdowns (swapping 94 @ 33 TD with 2009 @ 33 TD) - 145 touchdowns, 46 interceptions (3.15)

Consider that for a second.  Brees, in literally the easiest era of football, had 20 more touchdowns and 4 more interceptions in his best four years than Favre had in 94-97. 

If Brett Favre put half the time into the mental side of the game as guys like Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Manning... He would have been the undisputed number one QB to ever play the game.  Favre literally didn't know what "nickel" defense meant when he was a veteran in the league, and yet he's second all-time in touchdown passes. 

Favre gets really underrated here because he's been out of the league for a while and everybody looks at the interceptions, but he was unquestionably the best QB of all time at his height (players have since surpassed him, but he was unquestionably the best at the time).  He won three MVP awards in a row.  How does that happen?  It's extremely unheard of. 

So yeah, as far as pure talent and ability, I don't think there was anyone better than Favre.  I'd even put him above Aaron Rodgers as far as physical, uncoachable ability.  It was Favre's mental game that held him back. 

Then you consider that Favre went to one more Super Bowl (where he played very well), and I think it's very obvious and clear which one was the better player, and that's not even touching on his durability in a time where players could body slam a QB. 

[MacReady]

On 9/2/2017 at 0:45 PM, spilltray said:

Favre's INTs are really a killer for me. For all the legend, he threw away more close games with stupid picks than he pulled out with great throws. All time great QBs don't throw 6 INTs in a playoff game.

We're comparing Favre to Brees.  At least Brett Favre made it to the playoffs. 

Brees has been a starter in this league for 15 years.  He's made the playoffs 6 times.

Favre was a starter for 19 seasons.  He made the playoffs 12 times. 

And don't say Drew has had bad teams and bad defenses.  Favre's defense from 2000 to 2006 were far from good. 

[tyler735]

9 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

We're comparing Favre to Brees.  At least Brett Favre made it to the playoffs. 

Brees has been a starter in this league for 15 years.  He's made the playoffs 6 times.

Favre was a starter for 19 seasons.  He made the playoffs 12 times. 

And don't say Drew has had bad teams and bad defenses.  Favre's defense from 2000 to 2006 were far from good. 

I'll absolutely say Brees had bad defenses that held him back from the playoffs. It would be absurd not to. The Saints the past 3-4 seasons have had statistically some of the worst defenses in NFL history. The making the playoff argument is always bogus as football is a team game, but in this case it's especially bad as those Saint's defenses were so bad that there isn't a QB in the history of the NFL that could have brought those teams to the playoffs.

Also it should be noted that in 11 playoff games Drew Brees actually has a better QB rating in the playoffs than the does in his career in the regular season. His career playoff QB rating is over 100. Which obviously means he's played better against the best teams in the NFL when it matters most.

[Malik]

I don't know why people keep bringing up the whole "they played in different eras" thing. Brees and Favre's careers overlap by 10 seasons (9 where Brees is starting). They've both played a significant portion of their career in the pass happy era.

[RedRider]

Just now, Malik said:

I don't know why people keep bringing up the whole "they played in different eras" thing. Brees and Favre's careers overlap by 10 seasons (9 where Brees is starting). They've both played a significant portion of their career in the pass happy era.

Because the majority of Favre's best years were during a different era - before the rule changes in '04. Brees played three seasons before the rule change and stunk it up; then in 04, Brees all of a sudden broke out. I won't claim Brees' breakout was all because of the rule change (Brees truly went from an average player to a great one) but it plays a large part. Even Brady could only reach 4,000 yards or 30 td's until '04 and after. Manning had his best season in '04, and continued having all of his MVP seasons there on after. How well could Brees, or even Brady or Manning, have played in the 90's? What would their statistics look like? I'm sure these three QB's, including Brees, be right up there with Favre, perhaps worse or perhaps better. They'd have a much tougher time than they do in these post '04 rules, though. Looking at the stats of the contemporaries of the time - Young, Marino, Elway, guys who are just about as good as the aforementioned three - it's clear there would be some drop off caused by the difficulty of this previous era. Era, therefore, is a component that ultimately must be considered when comparing players, especially QBs.

 

And you can say Favre and Brees overlapped ten years, but that isn't as much as it seems knowing Favre played 19 years, and neither one played their best football near the same time (except for the 08-09 year).