Gmen Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 53 minutes ago, Counselor said: It’s really intriguing to me the sell by your front office that Denver or Washington was going to take Jones at 10/15. And then I’ve read fans say that Denver traded down because he wasn’t there at 10... Denver wanted Hockenson at 10. When Hockenson wasn’t there they moved down. If you have to convince your fan base it’s pretty comical. You either realize you screwed them by past moves or you don’t even have confidence in the value you just took at 6, or both. I personally like Jones and think he has a chance at being good. Well, the Giants were committed enough to Jones to take him with the #6 pick. Jones and Hockenson aside, I think the reports out of Denver that Lock was their guy all along are pretty funny. They let every team in the NFL have a shot at drafting him before taking him in the second round. If you really believe a guy is a franchise quarterback, you'd take him at #10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuziam71 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Haskins is garbage like all Ohio st QBs. He has receivers get the ball 5 yards at take it to the house. Not saying Jones is better because I havent seen much of him but anything is better then haskins. I watched highlights on haskins he could take a nap behind the offense line eat something then deside to pass the ball and still nobody would come close. I'll take my chances on Eli jr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Gmen said: Well, the Giants were committed enough to Jones to take him with the #6 pick. Jones and Hockenson aside, I think the reports out of Denver that Lock was their guy all along are pretty funny. They let every team in the NFL have a shot at drafting him before taking him in the second round. If you really believe a guy is a franchise quarterback, you'd take him at #10. Yeah but instead they moved down got Noah Fant, got their guy at QB and a 2020 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 33 minutes ago, Counselor said: Yeah but instead they moved down got Noah Fant, got their guy at QB and a 2020 3rd. It sure seems like they settled at QB and TE, but that’s life sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Gmen said: It sure seems like they settled at QB and TE, but that’s life sometimes They took the number one QB on their board. If the thought they were going to take Jones helps you sleep at night about your reach then so be it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 16 hours ago, Cuziam71 said: Haskins is garbage like all Ohio st QBs. He has receivers get the ball 5 yards at take it to the house. Not saying Jones is better because I havent seen much of him but anything is better then haskins. I watched highlights on haskins he could take a nap behind the offense line eat something then deside to pass the ball and still nobody would come close. I'll take my chances on Eli jr Funny how with those same receivers JT Barrett couldn’t do what Haskins did. Not to mention the protection he had he had a good deal do with that as he did the protections as a first year starter. “Not saying Jones is better than Haskins, but anybody is better than Haskins”. Makes a lot of sense... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 29 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: Funny how with those same receivers JT Barrett couldn’t do what Haskins did. Not to mention the protection he had he had a good deal do with that as he did the protections as a first year starter. “Not saying Jones is better than Haskins, but anybody is better than Haskins”. Makes a lot of sense... JT Barrett was a bad QB. Haskins is a good QB. What's obvious is the Giants value the traits Jones has an edge over Haskins in more. Jones is tougher, much more mobile, and showed more resiliency- he overcame a really bad Duke roster and a broken collarbone to put together a really solid senior year and a bowl victory. Haskins has a bigger arm and better deep accuracy pretty clearly over Jones. I guess Shurmur wasn't bluffing when he said last offseason that he doesn't care too much about those traits. At first this seems dumb, but the Jones selection reminds me of the Josh Allen QB selection last year. Small school guys, both had underwhelming stats in college, both extremely athletic, both big guys. They differ though in that Jones is much more cerebral and accurate while Allen has incredible arm talent. Jones has an advantage over both Haskins and Allen in that there is no pressure to start and he's learning from a fantastic QB developer in Shurmur. Jones also called the protections at Duke. He was impressive before the snap for a college QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, minutemancl said: JT Barrett was a bad QB. Haskins is a good QB. What's obvious is the Giants value the traits Jones has an edge over Haskins in more. Jones is tougher, much more mobile, and showed more resiliency- he overcame a really bad Duke roster and a broken collarbone to put together a really solid senior year and a bowl victory. Haskins has a bigger arm and better deep accuracy pretty clearly over Jones. I guess Shurmur wasn't bluffing when he said last offseason that he doesn't care too much about those traits. At first this seems dumb, but the Jones selection reminds me of the Josh Allen QB selection last year. Small school guys, both had underwhelming stats in college, both extremely athletic, both big guys. They differ though in that Jones is much more cerebral and accurate while Allen has incredible arm talent. Jones has an advantage over both Haskins and Allen in that there is no pressure to start and he's learning from a fantastic QB developer in Shurmur. Jones also called the protections at Duke. He was impressive before the snap for a college QB. That’s my point though, how can he call all ohio state QBs trash yet the one who with exact same weapons as is previous starter broke records as a first year starter. That’s what people forget Haskins played one year of college ball and he was a one of the best QBs in the nation, imagine if he was a 3 year starter? Tougher? Yeah that can’t be proven at all. Listen Jones had a bad roster comparative to Haskins no doubt but it’s not like a Jones was playing Clemson every week. The ACC is largely bad and he didn’t even stand out there. Haskins is cerebral, very good pre and post snap mind you. Not just pre snap. Haskins is more accurate period. Haskins under pressure got better and better as the year went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: That’s my point though, how can he call all ohio state QBs trash yet the one who with exact same weapons as is previous starter broke records as a first year starter. That’s what people forget Haskins played one year of college ball and he was a one of the best QBs in the nation, imagine if he was a 3 year starter? Tougher? Yeah that can’t be proven at all. Listen Jones had a bad roster comparative to Haskins no doubt but it’s not like a Jones was playing Clemson every week. The ACC is largely bad and he didn’t even stand out there. Haskins is cerebral, very good pre and post snap mind you. Not just pre snap. Haskins is more accurate period. Haskins under pressure got better and better as the year went on. Not by statistics. You gotta watch the film to see that, but it is absolutely true. Duke wasn't playing Clemson every week, but when they did, they had to change the passing offense to consist solely of basically 0 step drops because he was getting hit so quickly. That was the case a lot of weeks against defenses that were just physically superior to Duke's OL. Haskins is a great student of the game, he's very good at going through his reads, and he is very accurate. Haskins got better against pressure as the year went on, but Haskins also struggles mightily when his feet aren't set exactly as they should be at delivering an accurate ball. Jones doesn't; that's a benefit of his superior athleticism. Haskins also benefitted a lot from talented pass catchers. His game winning drive against Penn State this past year was the easiest game winning drive a QB could possibly orchestrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, minutemancl said: Not by statistics. You gotta watch the film to see that, but it is absolutely true. Duke wasn't playing Clemson every week, but when they did, they had to change the passing offense to consist solely of basically 0 step drops because he was getting hit so quickly. That was the case a lot of weeks against defenses that were just physically superior to Duke's OL. Haskins is a great student of the game, he's very good at going through his reads, and he is very accurate. Haskins got better against pressure as the year went on, but Haskins also struggles mightily when his feet aren't set exactly as they should be at delivering an accurate ball. Jones doesn't; that's a benefit of his superior athleticism. Haskins also benefitted a lot from talented pass catchers. His game winning drive against Penn State this past year was the easiest game winning drive a QB could possibly orchestrate. So Jones is tougher because he faced more pressure than Haskins? That’s a very flawed take to have. Haskins isn’t as mechanically sound as Jones so that explains his feet but he was still pretty darn accurate in spite of that. It’s just sometimes he could miss throws. Haskins is also a better decision maker. He rarely forced throws into coverage which speaks to his post snap abilities. Yeah he had a lot of speed around him but like I said before nobody was saying this when JT Barrett was QB when he threw 35 TDs and 9 INTs. Haskins in first year starting had 15 more TDs. Look at what he did vs Michigan in 2017 as a redshirt freshman when he was forced to step in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: So Jones is tougher because he faced more pressure than Haskins? That’s a very flawed take to have. Haskins isn’t as mechanically sound as Jones so that explains his feet but he was still pretty darn accurate in spite of that. It’s just sometimes he could miss throws. Haskins is also a better decision maker. He rarely forced throws into coverage which speaks to his post snap abilities. Yeah he had a lot of speed around him but like I said before nobody was saying this when JT Barrett was QB when he threw 35 TDs and 9 INTs. Haskins in first year starting had 15 more TDs. Look at what he did vs Michigan in 2017 as a redshirt freshman when he was forced to step in. That's why it isn't my take lol. Jones is tougher because he got hit a lot more and still continued to play. Again, watch the tape. I think there is a disconnect here- I'm not arguing Haskins was a better prospect than Jones. I had him ahead of Jones myself. I'm saying there is a justification for taking Jones over Haskins if you value certain attributes and skills more than others, which the Giants clearly do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minutemancl Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 17 hours ago, Counselor said: They took the number one QB on their board. If the thought they were going to take Jones helps you sleep at night about your reach then so be it. I'd be concerned about any team that didn't have Kyler Murray #1, the Giants included. We can't really take any team at their word right now regarding where they had QBs ranked, especially if they took one, because it would dumb for a team like the Broncos to come out and say "yeah we had Jones ranked ahead of Lock, but we couldn't get him so we settled for Lock instead". That would never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 52 minutes ago, minutemancl said: That's why it isn't my take lol. Jones is tougher because he got hit a lot more and still continued to play. Again, watch the tape. I think there is a disconnect here- I'm not arguing Haskins was a better prospect than Jones. I had him ahead of Jones myself. I'm saying there is a justification for taking Jones over Haskins if you value certain attributes and skills more than others, which the Giants clearly do. That doesn’t make him tougher and it implies that had Haskins been under same duress that he wouldn’t have shown the same toughness which is ridiculous. Thats where I disagree. I mean there a few things that work in Daniel Jones favour i.e. experience, athleticism and mechanically sound. But I see overall as no reason to have him picked over Haskins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudeWhat??? Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 On 4/29/2019 at 5:57 PM, Cuziam71 said: Haskins is garbage like all Ohio st QBs. He has receivers get the ball 5 yards at take it to the house. Not saying Jones is better because I havent seen much of him but anything is better then haskins. I watched highlights on haskins he could take a nap behind the offense line eat something then deside to pass the ball and still nobody would come close. I'll take my chances on Eli jr Dwayne Haskins non-screen pass stats.... 1530 yards 21 TDs..... he is really good also when not using screens... in fact the screens are based on the fact that teams would often blitz because haskins will sit in the pocket and dissect you if you dont. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuziam71 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 One of the reasons the giants looked past haskins is he showed up out of shape. If you go to an interview with with sweats and havent showered in 2 weeks good chance your not getting the job. Jones came in and lit the place up with his confidence and wanting to learn. He was energetic and had his own thoughts. Haskins had the 6th best offensive line in college last year. Those stats remind me of Texas tech or Houston. 5800 passing yards in a season but cant so anything in the NFL. That's what I see with haskins. Jones I never saw any games with him so I really dont know that much but I watched alot of Ohio st games. Best friend is a huge fan that's why. Allen would have been nice though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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