2020 NFL Draft Thread

[raidr4life]

 

[Frankie2Gunz]

18 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

For sure. I’m still here through all the dark times. Since 1997 been a Raider Fan. Only 31, so. I did at least get to experience 2000-2002 but we got screwed all three years basically. That fat f*** Tony falling on Gannon on purpose. The bulls*** Tuck Rule call that I will argue until death (although I’m over it, just will never agree with it). The arm was fully tucked back in already, therefore the Tuck Rule doesn’t apply. Then 2002 where, we didn’t get “screwed” but our own stupidity of trading Gruden away and him knowing our plays cost us the Super Bowl. 

2003-2009 was the darkest era of Raider History. 2010-2011 gave some false hope though and gave some entertaining games. Never forget the 59-14 Bronco game. Great memory. Then 2012-2013, right back to super dark times. 

2014-2016 seemed like promising years. Then right back to darkness in 2017-2018. 
 

However, we’re back on the bright side again with 2019 and onwards. We defied expectations and went 7-9 and Mayock looks like a hell of a GM. 
 

I’ll give you a virtual hug when we win the Super Bowl Frankie, don’t worry. 2023 it’s coming. 

Haha I'm all for it but hopefully we can win one before 23'.  Give Carr some weapons and we will all see that he can be the QB that will lead us there.  He may not be a sexy QB like Mahomes with a bazooka and highly mobile but he has the intangibles to lead this team. 

Once we start consistently winning and he is convinced he has the surrounding cast to contend you'll see him take the reigns off and lay it all on the line.  

[BayRaider]

4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Haha I'm all for it but hopefully we can win one before 23'.  Give Carr some weapons and we will all see that he can be the QB that will lead us there.  He may not be a sexy QB like Mahomes with a bazooka and highly mobile but he has the intangibles to lead this team. 

Once we start consistently winning and he is convinced he has the surrounding cast to contend you'll see him take the reigns off and lay it all on the line.  

This is what I'm hoping for:

2020: 7-9 or 8-8

2021: 10-6 or 11-5, wildcard.

2022: 12-4 or 13-3, Super Bowl Contenders.

2023: 12-4 or 13-3, Super Bowl Contenders, and a Super Bowl win.

We could win in 2022, but the year 2023 is the year all of the 2019 class will be in the Final Year of their deal. It'll be "All In" mentality that year from Gruden/Mayock/etc. We should have a pretty amazing roster in the years of 2022 and 2023. Key word, "should".

[raidr4life]

6 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Haha I'm all for it but hopefully we can win one before 23'.  Give Carr some weapons and we will all see that he can be the QB that will lead us there.  He may not be a sexy QB like Mahomes with a bazooka and highly mobile but he has the intangibles to lead this team. 

Once we start consistently winning and he is convinced he has the surrounding cast to contend you'll see him take the reigns off and lay it all on the line.  

 

[jimkelly02]

52 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Lamb had one of the fastest 10 yard splits. I think jeudys play speed is high 4.3 but Lamb is no slouch!

Great point.  It even more undermines the claim that Jeudy’s 4.45 to Okudah’s 4.48 is no big deal, but Lamb’s 4.45 to Okudah’s 4.48 is a huge difference.

Okudah:

10y: 1.60    20y: 2.65   40y:4.48

Jeudy:

10y: 1.56    20y: 2.59    40y: 4.45

Lamb: 

10y: 1.58    20y: 2.62    40y: 4.50

(Is Lamb gonna smok’s Okudah consistently for the first 20yd’s of a deep pass?  Should we be worried about Okudah’s mid range speed? Absolutely not!

Also, those are the BEST of 2 times... on one day.  
In fact, Jeudy’s unofficial time was 4.46 and Okudah’s other run was 4.49.  Were talking fractions of a second... so much that the timers must use insane cameras to count number of frames on the jump and finish.  That’s why these times change from unofficial to official.

so if Lamb was 4.496 and Jeudy was 4.454 does that chance BR’s opinion on how major the difference in speed is between them?  What is Okudah ran 4.484?

So where does BayRaider draw the line.  .03 isn’t that much but .05 is?  Well Lamb was only .02 slower than Okudah and a good contested catch WR whose nice route running could easily slow Okudah down slightly.  Not to mention Lamb is better at defeating press at the LoS and stronger to handle the constant bumping and hand checks that Happen throughout a 40yd deep route.  

All 3 players are all in the same ballpark of speed and to say otherwise is crazy.  I will agree that Jeudy’s game speed is slightly better than his time showed.  But that only strengths my point.... the 40 is just an indicator of speed.   These  players speed will change within the .03, that BR uses to draw the line in the sand and say that’s where it becomes a major difference on a daily basis, if they were to run them daily.

To disqualify Lamb as being a deep threat because he’s 4.50 and to say Jeudy is a deep threat at 4.45 is insane.

it’s very telling that BR moves the argument from 4.45/4.50 to 4.50/4.55 in his response.  He does that because he knows how weak his stance is.  So he moves it towards a threshold (4.55) that is an indicator of deep speed.  Reality is 4.45 and 4.48 and 4.50 are all basically the same time and all three players will routinely beat each other deep one play and not the next.  That’s because the difference in speed is minuscule and the footwork and physicality throughout the route is what will determine the outcome.

This is just another example of how the search button can come back and get you when your inconsistent in your stances.

[jimkelly02]

38 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Of the top 15 WR's in the league last season in receiving yards, only 1 (Julio Jones) ran a 4.3. 

 

Did they all run under the 4.45 threshold?  I couldn’t imagine many 4.50 guys were on their! (Sarcasm)

[CaliforniaKid7]

The more I watch this CB class the more I really like some of the options. I'd be really happy with Johnson, Terrell, Gladney, or Fulton in the late 1st/early 2nd. And Damon Arnette is growing on me in that late 2nd/early 3rd range as well. 

 

I think it would be great if we could trade back to the late 1st/2nd and grab a boundary corner like Terrell and then come back in the 3rd and land a legit slot like Amik or Darnay Holmes. Double dipping would set us up at CB for the next decade. 

[BayRaider]

2 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

The more I watch this CB class the more I really like some of the options. I'd be really happy with Johnson, Terrell, Gladney, or Fulton in the late 1st/early 2nd. And Damon Arnette is growing on me in that late 2nd/early 3rd range as well. 

 

I think it would be great if we could trade back to the late 1st/2nd and grab a boundary corner like Terrell and then come back in the 3rd and land a legit slot like Amik or Darnay Holmes. Double dipping would set us up at CB for the next decade. 

Agreed, the corner class from the Late 1st to Early 3rd is just as deep as WR. Just no where near as Top-Heavy outside of Okudah.

I'm also totally down to get a nickel back at some point, even if it's in the 5th Round. Nickel Corners usually go Late 3rd-Mid 5th area in most drafts. Some of the best Nickel guys currently in the NFL have come out of the 5th Round. Obviously they'd sit most of this year and replace Joyner next year depending on Joyners performance.

In an ideal draft, where every position matched value, it'd end up looking like this IMO:

12 - WR

19 - CB

80 - QB (mainly because I like Hurts here) (can also replace with EDGE)

81 - DT

91 - OG

4th Round: RB

5th Round: Nickel Corner

Draft can't come fast enough.

 

[doctordeath]

Anyone watch Deeestroying on YouTube? He had a recent video of dudes running routes/defending on a field. Jeudy looked to be one of them. If so, he shouldn't be considered one of the top 2 wrs in the class, purely from what I saw. I know it's not a serious game nor are they in pads, but man, he had some drops and despite his fancy footwork, he was smothered more than once by a dude who doesn't look to be in the pros. I feel he's more fitting of a supporting role, which isn't what we need. We need not just speed -- we need a boss.

Edited April 9, 2020 by doctordeath

[Frankie2Gunz]

The reason why a lot of speed guys don't pan out at WR is because the game has been easy for them their whole life.  No one in high school or college can compete with 4.3 straight line speed so they never refine their game and put in the hard work it takes to be elite on the NFL level.  Once they get to the NFL and see the speed and athleticism of every DB they face they soon realize they can't by on sheer speed anymore and fizzle out.   

[BayRaider]

10 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

The reason why a lot of speed guys don't pan out at WR is because the game has been easy for them their whole life.  No one in high school or college can compete with 4.3 straight line speed so they never refine their game and put in the hard work it takes to be elite on the NFL level.  Once they get to the NFL and see the speed and athleticism of every DB they face they soon realize they can't by on sheer speed anymore and fizzle out.   

I think it's mainly because these 4.2 and 4.3 speed guys are usually drafted because of speed and are not very polished what so ever. This is why 4.4 and Low 4.5 WR's have the biggest success rate. 4.4 guys have plenty of juice and were usually polished-enough in college.

Ruggs is different though. Is he as polished as Lamb, Jeudy, and Jefferson? No. But he's a very polished WR, has great hands and dropped 1 ball this past year, aggressive, and runs some solid routes, and most diverse route tree. He doesn't run the routes effectively as his peers, but he is the most diverse. Ruggs also has shown plenty of examples defeating press regularly.

4.2/4.3 speed guys are usually horrible unpolished prospects that teams are gambling on purely on speed.

Ruggs III is not one of those guys. Ruggs definitely deserves to be a Top 20 pick unlike the John Ross's and DHB's of the world.

Edited April 9, 2020 by BayRaider

[Frankie2Gunz]

9 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I think it's mainly because these 4.2 and 4.3 speed guys are usually drafted because of speed and are not very polished what so ever. This is why 4.4 and Low 4.5 WR's have the biggest success rate. 4.4 guys have plenty of juice and were usually polished-enough in college.

Ruggs is different though. Is he as polished as Lamb, Jeudy, and Jefferson? No. But he's a very polished WR, has great hands and dropped 1 ball this past year, aggressive, and runs some solid routes, and most diverse route tree. He doesn't run the routes effectively as his peers, but he is the most diverse. Ruggs also has shown plenty of examples defeating press regularly.

4.2/4.3 speed guys are usually horrible unpolished prospects that teams are gambling on purely on speed.

Ruggs III is not one of those guys. Ruggs definitely deserves to be a Top 20 pick unlike the John Ross's and DHB's of the world.

Time will tell on Ruggs and I'm not saying one thing or another as I have not invested enough time in watching him to know either way. 

What I do know is that it's easy to say Ross isn't an elite stud because time in the NFL has proven so.  You do realize that a NFL GM with professional scouts thought Ross was a top 10 overall pick and clearly didn't think he was "unpolished".  

@BayRaiderWho of the top 3 WR's prospects will be a bust?

[CaliforniaKid7]

It’s crazy that DHB and Ross went anywhere near where they did. Ruggs runs circles around those cats as WR prospects. 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Time will tell on Ruggs and I'm not saying one thing or another as I have not invested enough time in watching him to know either way. 

What I do know is that it's easy to say Ross isn't an elite stud because time in the NFL has proven so.  You do realize that a NFL GM with professional scouts thought Ross was a top 10 overall pick and clearly didn't think he was "unpolished".  

@BayRaiderWho of the top 3 WR's prospects will be a bust?

You know what my answer on that would be. Why bait me into a 3-4 page argue war against of Me vs Jim/You? I've got my opinion on this, you got yours.

And personally, I don't expect any of them to "hardcore bust". I just expect Lamb to me more of an Upper Tier WR2, still a Top 25 WR in the NFL, but not as good as Ruggs/Jeudy. I think Ruggs will have the worst rookie year of the three though.

[BayRaider]

3 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

It’s crazy that DHB and Ross went anywhere near where they did. Ruggs runs circles around those cats as WR prospects. 

100%. DHB was just a track star. He couldn't even catch the football. And his speed was 4.30... not even 4.2. At least Ross was record-breaking 4.22 speed to gamble on. DHB at 9 was such a horrible selection.