Bitcoin

[Knowledge]

Whats the deal with BitConnect lending? You guys trust it?

Says If I lend $10,010 in 120 days I'll receive $24,000

I see a lot of people say its a well organized Ponzi but other people are die hard for it and making some CASH

Think its here to stay? Worth the risk? 

[BayRaider]

Bitconnect is a pure pyramid scheme. Night and day. I was thinking about doing it but don't wanna risk going to prison. UK Government has already threatened to shut them down. You don't make money from lending, you make money from referrals and percentages off those referrals depositing up to 7 levels down which is the definition of a pyramid scheme. Sure, people have made tons of money there. Trevon James is one. He has 5300 referrals and has made 900k. But he makes money from referrals, not lending like he claims. 

Do Bitconnect at your own risk. It's not legal. 

[jrry32]

4 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Yes Bitcoin has a limited supply which should be how a currency works. The government printing new money all the time is ridiculous. 

That's a horrible idea for a government-backed currency.

[jrry32]

6 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Those who've spent significant time understanding it.

Also, virtual currency =\= Bitcoin. The value of Bitcoin is not simply because it's not physical.

And who are those people?

Nobody said that Bitcoin is just a virtual currency.

5 hours ago, incognito_man said:

I'm not sure why real assets are a safety net. The U.S could in theory print off a quadrillion dollars a day rendering the value of fiat currency stored today worthless regardless of any buildings or land within our borders.

Bitcoin is both scarce and theoretically immune to central control.

In theory, a lot of nearly impossible things could happen. Real assets are a safety net because their value is tied to something tangible and measurable. Bitcoin's value is tied solely to consumer expectations and confidence.

9 hours ago, Mossburg said:

Yea, I don't disagree with the bubble, I think a lot of people in in the bitcoin community agree. I do think he ignores (unless he addressed this elsewhere) the value of the ability to revolutionize commerce in many poor places where they set up internet. The technology itself has amazing value. But yes, that alone is not the reason why the price ballooned.

Saying it should be outlawed is pretty extreme and what jumps out at anyone who reads that, especially considering that's the freaking headline haha.

I think we all agree that Bitcoin has spawned a valuable concept with incredible potential to revolutionize payment systems. However, I think Bitcoin is only the starting line on that.

11 hours ago, incognito_man said:

 .with reasoning. Why is a scare resource with an immutable ledger less of a safety net than a government that can (and has historically) suffer from hyperinflation?

I've already supported it with reasoning. Why is Bitcoin less of a safety net than a government-backed currency? Well, first of all, it depends on the government. But with a government like the United States, you're basically guaranteed that the country isn't going to fail tomorrow. Because of that, the money will continue to be valuable. Whereas Bitcoin has shown a lot of volatility over the years. It's value isn't tied to anything tangible. It's solely based on consumer expectations and confidence. The dollar's value is tied to the U.S. government and guaranteed by them. 

[incognito_man]

5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

And who are those people?

Nobody said that Bitcoin is just a virtual currency.

I don't have a list, sorry. What's your angle here? This seems like such a stupid point to argue  

5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

In theory, a lot of nearly impossible things could happen. Real assets are a safety net because their value is tied to something tangible and measurable. Bitcoin's value is tied solely to consumer expectations and confidence.

yes, of course real assets themselves have intrinsic value. That is not the argument. Fiat currencies aren't backed by real assets, they are back by the faith of a government. That a government has control of real assets is irrelevant to the current value of a fiat currency. Yes of course the USD is less volatile and more trusted than Bitcoin because of heritage - no one is arguing that it isn't. The point remains, however, that there is nothing more ultimately backing the USD than there is the Bitcoin: both rely only on the notion that someone else also believes it is a store of value. Today way more people think the USD is a better store of value than Bitcoin. But that's only because it always has been in the past, nothing more.

[jrry32]

5 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

I don't have a list, sorry. What's your angle here? This seems like such a stupid point to argue

My angle here is that you don't know who is qualified or not (even based on your own definition), so it seems odd to try and exclude the opinion of one of the top economic minds in the world on something he knows quite well (bubbles, securities, investments, volatility, etc.).

Quote

yes, of course real assets themselves have intrinsic value. That is not the argument. Fiat currencies aren't backed by real assets, they are back by the faith of a government. That a government has control of real assets is irrelevant to the current value of a fiat currency. Yes of course the USD is less volatile and more trusted than Bitcoin because of heritage - no one is arguing that it isn't. The point remains, however, that there is nothing more ultimately backing the USD than there is the Bitcoin: both rely only on the notion that someone else also believes it is a store of value. Today way more people think the USD is a better store of value than Bitcoin. But that's only because it always has been in the past, nothing more.

Yes, there is. There is something tangible backing the USD, the U.S. government. You can determine the sort of confidence you have in the dollar based on your confidence in the government. Bitcoin is unique in that there's nothing tangible backing it. Your faith in Bitcoin is determined by your faith in Bitcoin. There's no second layer here. Which makes this meteoric rise look dubious because it's not tied to anything but a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Edited December 1, 2017 by jrry32

[Knowledge]

35 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Bitconnect is a pure pyramid scheme. Night and day. I was thinking about doing it but don't wanna risk going to prison. UK Government has already threatened to shut them down. You don't make money from lending, you make money from referrals and percentages off those referrals depositing up to 7 levels down which is the definition of a pyramid scheme. Sure, people have made tons of money there. Trevon James is one. He has 5300 referrals and has made 900k. But he makes money from referrals, not lending like he claims. 

Do Bitconnect at your own risk. It's not legal. 

I've seen people with no referrals making money. Its legit as far as getting money back but the thing for me is how long will it last? 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, Knowledge said:

I've seen people with no referrals making money. Its legit as far as getting money back but the thing for me is how long will it last? 

They must show proof of being a real business and not a pyramid to the UK Government in the next 45 days or so. So not very long..

Although ETHConnect started today I think. I tried to get in the ICO (not the program) cause it's almost certain a $100-200 coin like Bitconnect but the ICO sold out in like less than a minute. 

[Knowledge]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

They must show proof of being a real business and not a pyramid to the UK Government in the next 45 days or so. So not very long..

Although ETHConnect started today I think. I tried to get in the ICO (not the program) cause it's almost certain a $100-200 coin like Bitconnect but the ICO sold out in like less than a minute. 

So what your saying is ETHConnect is the way to go lol

[BayRaider]

Just now, Knowledge said:

So what your saying is ETHConnect is the way to go lol

ETHConnect is a bit less of a Pyramid Scheme because the referral program is 5 levels I think and not 7 but it's still a pyramid scheme. 

You can risk it if you want but the small chance of jail time always being on my mind isn't worth the stress for me. 

[BayRaider]

ETHConnects token price is so guaranteed to be $100-200 at some point that for the first time ever I saw people on bitcointalk paying $20 per coin directly after the ICO before it goes to exchanges when it sold for 50 cents during the ICO. Absolutely crazy. Still mad I missed the ICO. Easy 100x profit. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by BayRaider

[incognito_man]

24 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

My angle here is that you don't know who is qualified or not (even based on your own definition), so it seems odd to try and exclude the opinion of one of the top economic minds in the world on something he knows quite well (bubbles, securities, investments, volatility, etc.).

I'm discounting his opinion you showcased because it was demonstrably false. Why can't you just admit this guy whose opinion you're leaning on certainly doesn't appear to be an authority on Bitcoin. He might know about anything else you want to list, but I don't care. I said he doesn't appear to know very much about what Bitcoin is. You then defended this by saying he's open to "virtual currency" - which is completely irrelevant. That's not what Bitcoin is...

27 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Yes, there is. There is something tangible backing the USD

No. There's really not. Full stop. It's a fiat currency, man. Literally google "fiat currency"

Quote

Fiat money is currency that a government has declared to be legal tender, but it is not backed by a physical commodity. The value of fiat money is derived from the relationship between supply and demand rather than the value of the material that the money is made of.

 

[ramssuperbowl99]

5 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Well, Bitcoin is a finite supply so that doesn't matter, really. Plus something like 80% is already in circulation.

This is the first I've ever heard of this. My understanding of blockchain technology is that there are equations which get exponentially more complicated, but there is never a hard cap.

[jrry32]

17 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

No. There's really not. Full stop. It's a fiat currency, man. Literally google "fiat currency"

Is it backed by the U.S. government? If it is, my point continues to stand (the point you ignored and deleted to avoid having to address).

Quote

I'm discounting his opinion you showcased because it was demonstrably false. Why can't you just admit this guy whose opinion you're leaning on certainly doesn't appear to be an authority on Bitcoin. He might know about anything else you want to list, but I don't care. I said he doesn't appear to know very much about what Bitcoin is. You then defended this by saying he's open to "virtual currency" - which is completely irrelevant. That's not what Bitcoin is...

Bitcoin is not a virtual currency?

The guy whose opinion I am relying on is an authority on economics. And that's what I'm relying on. But I'm sure you're more of an economic expert than he is.

Edited December 1, 2017 by jrry32

[incognito_man]

7 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Is it backed by the U.S. government?

Bitcoin is not a virtual currency?

The guy whose opinion I am relying on is an authority on economics. And that's what I'm relying on. But I'm sure you're more of an economic expert than he is. It's become clear from posting on this forum for many years with you that you believe you're an expert on anything and everything. I'm moving on from this discussion.

It's backed by the faith of the US Government (a collection of people), yes. And it is a paper-based currency.

Bitcoin is backed by the faith of a collection of global citizens and is a virtual currency.

That's it.

And you're really reaching now because you seem to be upset. I've stated like 5 times in here that I'm not an expert, please stop inventing arguments. I have read the white paper cover to cover a few times, along with white papers for Ethereum and Ripple, so I have an understanding of the tech enough to know I don't think your economist has even done that much. You can rely on him if you want, but I'd suggest reading it yourself, then you may realize he might not be as much of an authority as you hoped he would be.