Training Camp/Preseason 2019: 1-3: Time to get to 53

[Skins212689]

14 minutes ago, Woz said:

Keep in mind when talking about "money spent" in relation to the team, you should always consider it in relation to the salary cap. Snyder's got the actual dollars, but by the CBA he cannot necessarily give it to Williams (or Scherff or whomever) because they're up against the cap. Now, he may not want to spend that money on Trent; I don't know if he does or not. However, they have a finite amount of space to work with and they're close to that limit. Yes, they did free up $4M by releasing Foster, but keep in mind every team goes into the season with a bit of room as "just in case" space ... like you have to sign Mark Sanchez and Josh Johnson late in the season.

If your goal is to Win I would hope you do everything in your power to keep a Great LT on this team. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

If your goal is to Win I would hope you do everything in your power to keep a Great LT on this team. 

Sure. But not at the expense of a new 5 year mega contract for a guy who is on the wrong side of 30 and hasn't played a full season in years. That's how we got into cap hell in Snyder's earlier tenure and we ended up with guys like Randy Thomas on the roster (taking up gobs of space) when he couldn't play and we couldn't cut him because of the dead cap problems it would kick off.

Yes, do what you can do.

1. Guarantee the existing contract that ends when he's 32 years old. It's not that much money comparatively and he gets that last financial windfall guaranteed.
2. Or you trade him and get something back for him and thus giving him what he said he wanted.

If he's not down for either, let him sit out and damage his own career. You don't have to pay him any money and he will still be your player when he's 32. 

[MKnight82]

4 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

If your goal is to Win I would hope you do everything in your power to keep a Great LT on this team. 

Ya but that viewpoint is too narrow.  You have to take account WHEN the team will be able to win.  That isn’t this year, and likely not for a few more years.  Trent Williams will likely be seriously declining by then.  A top draft pick could be much more impactful for wins 2-3 seasons from now than a broken down Trent Williams. 

[Skins212689]

13 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Right...because he's using that as a scapegoat to avoid looking greedy to the fans. This is not hard to figure out.

Was a mistake made? Maybe. We still don't know. My guess is it was. 

Mistakes happen. I was misdiagnosed once with shingles when it was just an infected area that had MRSA inside it. It happens. He got a second opinion and the tumor was removed. So yes, the holdout is on the player. 

Compensate him for what? No harm came to the player as a result. The tumor was removed (and was benign) and he has not missed any camp practices as a result of that removal nor has he been financially harmed by this (except by his own refusal to participate in OTAs). He is cleared to play. So why does the player need to be compensated? Answer...he doesn't. Unless this is about a new contract. Which we all know it is.

Wow, I don't even know where to begin. But let's do it...

Closed doors - yes, it could've been. It was Trent who brought it public. Not the team

Yes, our medical staff sucks. Is it our fault he doesn't want to play here anymore? Quite possibly. So then trading him gives him what he wants, doesn't it?

ANNNNDDDDD here is the real reason IMHO that he's staging the holdout and using the medical staff sucking as an excuse.  Because if he truly doesn't trust the medical staff, then NO amount of money would get him to come back and play when that same medical staff will still be here. So, since we all pretty much agree that he's seeking more money, Ockham's Razor suggests that the medical staff complaint is the scapegoat. And he hit the right time to do his holdout.

• Medical staff under crosshairs
• Christian not working out
• Nsehke gone
• Only guy you added was Flowers.

It was literally a perfect storm for him to be able to sit out and demand a large contract/more $.

Again - If this was truly about the medical staff and not wanting to play and have them treat him, then no amount of $ is gonna get him to come back and we need to acquiesce to his wishes and send him to another team where he is comfortable with their staff.

I would be doing it daily if I could. I also would be trying to trade the guy.

Okay...Let's break it down again.

So the medical staff is staying put. If all it takes is more $ to get him back to camp, then you and he have admitted that all he wanted was more money. 

And if you admit that (which you basically have), then logically it follows that his real motivation wasn't the mistrust of the medical staff (because he would then be perfectly fine playing in 2019 with them treating him), but was in fact, more money that he was after. So the medical staff thing was a smokescreen. 

1) Right, but you're not firing the staff are you? The Redskins aren't going to fire them at this point in the season. 

2) Yes, we do. And this is why he's staging his holdout. He knows he has us over a barrel right now. So we should call his bluff. Sign Penn, trade him (or let him sit out).

Which is what I was saying. What I would do is the following.

1) Give him no NEW money. Instead we can guarantee the money we already have allocated to him in salary (would have to take a look at the amounts in 2019 and 2020 but we can at least do 2019. This allows him to have that payday he's looking for even if something were to happen to him physically and he can't play after 2020. But this also keeps us from laying out any new money to him.

2) If he truly is not going to play for us (because the medical staff issue was not a smokescreen), then we need to trade him and accede to his demands for a trade. That also is taking responsibility for the misdiagnosis and the crap we have for a medical team by making sure he gets where he wants to be.

Because I can guarantee you that the last thing a 30 year old Trent Williams (who hasn't finished a full season in years and was the most penalized lineman we had last year) wants to do is sit at home for 2 years and not play. He not only won't get paid but very little $ is gonna come the way of a former top LT who is 32/33 years old and hasn't played in 2 years.

Either you sign Penn and tell him to get his butt back in camp (along with guaranteeing the salary), or you trade him. Or he sits at home while you go on with life. Either way, you're not letting him hold the team hostage. 

I like #1 No New Money but switching up his salary a bit for more Guanrateed money. I'd still sign Penn to possibly start at LT while Trent plays LG over Flowers. Or you trade Trent, no way is he gonna hold the team hostage. IT also would be nice to see changes to the Medical Staff just as courtesy for the safety and health of your current and future players. 

[Thaiphoon]

3 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Ya but that viewpoint is too narrow.  You have to take account WHEN the team will be able to win.  That isn’t this year, and likely not for a few more years.  Trent Williams will likely be seriously declining by then.  A top draft pick could be much more impactful for wins 2-3 seasons from now than a broken down Trent Williams. 

Bingo. If he's not going to play and wants an extension, you trade him for a 2nd and wish him well. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

I like #1 No New Money but switching up his salary a bit for more Guanrateed money. I'd still sign Penn to possibly start at LT while Trent plays LG over Flowers. Or you trade Trent, no way is he gonna hold the team hostage. IT also would be nice to see changes to the Medical Staff just as courtesy for the safety and health of your current and future players. 

Oh ABSOLUTELY!! I've been the biggest proponent of just this (bolded) approach.

[Skins212689]

9 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Ya but that viewpoint is too narrow.  You have to take account WHEN the team will be able to win.  That isn’t this year, and likely not for a few more years.  Trent Williams will likely be seriously declining by then.  A top draft pick could be much more impactful for wins 2-3 seasons from now than a broken down Trent Williams. 

That's your mindset. I don't want guys around my team with that mindset. No I don't want you cocky but I Damn sure don't want you uninspired even before the seasons begins. None of Us know what the team will look like, but I know going in the Goal is to Win so do what needs to be done to Win. You should be on the Junkies. A show full of DC sports Haters (accept the Caps) but they are paid to report on the team. I said I would trade Trent if he didn't accept my proposition.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Skins212689

[Skins212689]

11 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

Oh ABSOLUTELY!! I've been the biggest proponent of just this (bolded) approach.

Yet they haven't and don't seem to being do so in the near future. So as a agent or player are you not concerned about signing or being drafted by Washington? 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Skins212689

[MKnight82]

13 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

That's your mindset. I don't want guys around my team with that mindset. No I don't want you cocky but I Damn sure don't want you uninspired even before the seasons begins. None of Us know what the team will look like, but I know going in the Goal is to Win so do what needs to be done to Win. You should be on the Junkies. A show full of DC sports Haters (accept the Caps) but they are paid to report on the team. I said I would trade Trent if he didn't accept my proposition.

That isn’t my mindset it’s just common sense.

[Skins212689]

2 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

That isn’t my mindset it’s just common sense.

Like it was common sense they would be 6-3 last year right? It was common sense they get both Haskins and Sweat in the draft as well huh? 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Skins212689

[MKnight82]

2 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Like it was common sense they would be 6-3 last year right? It was common sense they get both Haskins and Sweat in the draft as well huh? 

6-3 got them what?

Haskins started 1 season in college.  Name me a team that has won a super bowl with a rookie QB?  I’ll wait.

 

[Skins212689]

3 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

6-3 got them what?

Haskins started 1 season in college.  Name me a team that has won a super bowl with a rookie QB?  I’ll wait.

 

I don't think that has been done, but I know Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez won playoff games as rookies. Also RG3 had us up 14 points in a Playoff game as a rookie. So while winning a SuperBowl may be far fetched it's still the Damn Goal and if your not on that bus Get Off my Bus please. 

You cant predict the future and as I said don't know what their record will be. So hush with the HATE PLEASE. Let them actually start looking like **** 1st before you call them ****! On paper this isn't a ****ty team and while healthy they showed it last year depsite how they won games!.

[Thaiphoon]

23 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Yet they haven't and don't seem to being do so in the near future. So as a agent or player are you not concerned about signing or being drafted by Washington? 

Of course I would be. Which is why it would take more money to sign there. But Trent is already signed and is currently under contract. He already knew about the staff when he signed the contract to begin with. So as we've agreed here, it's not about the medical staff but him getting one last payday

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

I don't think that has been done, but I know Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez won playoff games as rookies. Also RG3 had us up 14 points in a Playoff game as a rookie. So while winning a SuperBowl may be far fetched it's still the Damn Goal and if your not on that bus Get Off my Bus please. 

You cant predict the future and as I said don't know what their record will be. So hush with the HATE PLEASE. Let them actually start looking like **** 1st before you call them ****! On paper this isn't a ****ty team and while healthy they showed it last year depsite how they won games!.

Dude they are several years from competing.  Like I said, common sense.

[Thaiphoon]

3 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

I don't think that has been done, but I know Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez won playoff games as rookies. Also RG3 had us up 14 points in a Playoff game as a rookie. So while winning a SuperBowl may be far fetched it's still the Damn Goal and if your not on that bus Get Off my Bus please. 

You cant predict the future and as I said don't know what their record will be. So hush with the HATE PLEASE. Let them actually start looking like **** 1st before you call them ****! On paper this isn't a ****ty team and while healthy they showed it last year depsite how they won games!.

Short term thinking sinks franchises. You shouldn't mortgage the future to try to win one SB this year. Because as you said

Quote

...You cant predict the future

So mortgaging the future of the team to try to win a SB one year could end up blowing up in our faces because we could have tons of injuries, etc... and end up 5-11. And then we've got an overpaid 34 year old tackle in a few years whose skills are in decline and  is still on the team. Meanwhile the guy we could've drafted in the 2nd round would only be in his 4th year at that point and contributing for another 6 or 7 years.

We acknowledge the team isn't winning the SB or a perennial playoff contender. So then the smart move is to trade him if he keeps demanding more new money.