Training Camp/Preseason 2019: 1-3: Time to get to 53

[lavar703]

Waive the dang fees and work this out you bunch of idiots. Don’t alienate the best player we’ve put on the field since Sean Taylor just so Bruce can win his little war. Cut the crap out already. If anybody deserves to be taken care of by this organization it’s Trent. My god this situation is dumb. And yes, I would fire the whole training staff for their horrible oversight with the growth on his head. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

Waive the dang fees and work this out you bunch of idiots. Don’t alienate the best player we’ve put on the field since Sean Taylor just so Bruce can win his little war. Cut the crap out already. If anybody deserves to be taken care of by this organization it’s Trent. My god this situation is dumb. And yes, I would fire the whole training staff for their horrible oversight with the growth on his head. 

Redskins doctors told Trent they thought it was a cyst but, he should get a second opinion. I heard on the TEAM980 today, I think in a Jerry Brewer interview, that Trent has his own doctors too that help him with extra treatment through the season and he sends a lot of time with them. 

The Redskins doctors told Trent to get a second opinion and he chose to wait until after the season.

The Redskins organization - especially the front office is a *hit show - but Trent made a mistake here too bc he didn't get a second opinion and then he's made mistakes in the offseason by not telling the team he wanted traded before free agency or at least the draft.

I also don't think it's wise to fire the entire medical and training staff because of one player. I think they Redskins medical staff has made mistakes but, so have the players in their own recovery from injuries and it's certainly not a time where any team would fire their whole medical staff with just a month before the season starts.

Now, if they have another season where they are amongst the league leaders in the injuries I could see the Redskins getting rid of them after the season.

Edited August 2, 2019 by turtle28

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Redskins doctors told Trent they thought it was a cyst but, he should get a second opinion. I heard on the TEAM980 today, I think in a Jerry Brewer interview, that Trent has his own doctors too that help him with extra treatment through the season and he sends a lot of time with them. 

The Redskins doctors told Trent to get a second opinion and he chose to wait until after the season.

Gonna share something with you that you guys might be squeamish about. And why it is important to get a second opinion on pretty much everything.

Last summer, I had a hair follicle at the base of my scalp get infected. I keep my hair close to the skin on back and sides and some on top (more a military cut than anything else due to being from a military family/upbringing). So it got infected after a haircut.

Now picture where it was. Top of my neck at the base of my scalp right at the hair's edge. In that little pocket between the two tendons that attach to the base of your skull.

That infection started out like a little boil. And then grew...and grew...and grew... over the next 2 days

Until it was two inches long, and inch wide and came up off the skin about half and inch. I sleep on my back and literally couldn't sleep without a pain level of about 8 or 9 (I have a high threshold for pain so if I tell you it was an 8 it WAS) when on my back and still a throbbing 6 or 7 during the day..

I finally got tired of it after a few days and since it was like 7:30pm and I didn't want to cram up the ER with a mild complaint I went to a local clinic (not going to dime them out here). The guy took one look at me and saw the scabbed up part had turned white and said...

"You got shingles." And prescribed a very high dosage of antiviral meds and painkiller. This was concerning to me because I couldn't hold my son if I had it. This was a Monday.

Well, I took the meds only until Wednesday and I started researching shingles because something didn't seem right, and noticed that nothing that it showed as symptoms looked anything like the pictures my wife took of the growth. 

So THIS time, on that Thursday, I went to the ER. Now, mind you the pain had been intense and going on since the previous Saturday night. The ER doc took a look at me (this was my 2nd opinion I was getting), and said NOT shingles. It was an infected cyst.

And took me OFF the antivirals and put me on a high antibiotic dose (which would cover MRSA in case it turned out to be that). Told me to come back in one week to see if the thing had gone down.

I took the meds and painkillers and waited a week. It DIDN'T go down. It was still just as painful.

So the only option was debridement (where they open you up - same thing happened with Guice and Alex Smith on their infections).

Here's the kicker, they used a local anesthetic, but since the tissue was cystic, that local would not cover all the pain )the doc told me this going in). So he used a scalpel to open it up and drain it of all the stuff inside.

And I felt it all.

My nervous system took over after he was finished and even though I only gave a few grunts and a quick shout when he was doing it, I had the shakes from the adrenaline pumping through me as a result of the assault on my body.

Turns out that they tested the stuff inside...it was MRSA that had infected me. Had I gone with the original doctor's opinion, it might've turned out VERY badly for me.

NEVER, EVER, EVER, when it's something THAT important, just take the first doctor's word for it. ALWAYS get a 2nd opinion.

And Trent has the resources to do it. And did. I'm glad he did. But medicine is not a "we're always right 100% of the time" type of thing and any adult should know this.

[naptownskinsfan]

9 hours ago, Woz said:

 

A whole lot of miscommunication and misunderstandings ... the only good thing that can perhaps come of this is Brice's canning. I'm just not optimistic that happens.

Firing the whole training staff at this point is not realistic, even though many of them deserve to be shown the door.  But if a couple of guys are indeed shown the door, then maybe Williams comes back in.  

Either way, this is a first.  His issue also includes Bruce Allen along with the training staff, so we shall see.  

[turtle28]

9 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Gonna share something with you that you guys might be squeamish about. And why it is important to get a second opinion on pretty much everything.

Last summer, I had a hair follicle at the base of my scalp get infected. I keep my hair close to the skin on back and sides and some on top (more a military cut than anything else due to being from a military family/upbringing). So it got infected after a haircut.

Now picture where it was. Top of my neck at the base of my scalp right at the hair's edge. In that little pocket between the two tendons that attach to the base of your skull.

That infection started out like a little boil. And then grew...and grew...and grew... over the next 2 days

Until it was two inches long, and inch wide and came up off the skin about half and inch. I sleep on my back and literally couldn't sleep without a pain level of about 8 or 9 (I have a high threshold for pain so if I tell you it was an 8 it WAS) when on my back and still a throbbing 6 or 7 during the day..

I finally got tired of it after a few days and since it was like 7:30pm and I didn't want to cram up the ER with a mild complaint I went to a local clinic (not going to dime them out here). The guy took one look at me and saw the scabbed up part had turned white and said...

"You got shingles." And prescribed a very high dosage of antiviral meds and painkiller. This was concerning to me because I couldn't hold my son if I had it. This was a Monday.

Well, I took the meds only until Wednesday and I started researching shingles because something didn't seem right, and noticed that nothing that it showed as symptoms looked anything like the pictures my wife took of the growth. 

So THIS time, on that Thursday, I went to the ER. Now, mind you the pain had been intense and going on since the previous Saturday night. The ER doc took a look at me (this was my 2nd opinion I was getting), and said NOT shingles. It was an infected cyst.

And took me OFF the antivirals and put me on a high antibiotic dose (which would cover MRSA in case it turned out to be that). Told me to come back in one week to see if the thing had gone down.

I took the meds and painkillers and waited a week. It DIDN'T go down. It was still just as painful.

So the only option was debridement (where they open you up - same thing happened with Guice and Alex Smith on their infections).

Here's the kicker, they used a local anesthetic, but since the tissue was cystic, that local would not cover all the pain )the doc told me this going in). So he used a scalpel to open it up and drain it of all the stuff inside.

And I felt it all.

My nervous system took over after he was finished and even though I only gave a few grunts and a quick shout when he was doing it, I had the shakes from the adrenaline pumping through me as a result of the assault on my body.

Turns out that they tested the stuff inside...it was MRSA that had infected me. Had I gone with the original doctor's opinion, it might've turned out VERY badly for me.

NEVER, EVER, EVER, when it's something THAT important, just take the first doctor's word for it. ALWAYS get a 2nd opinion.

And Trent has the resources to do it. And did. I'm glad he did. But medicine is not a "we're always right 100% of the time" type of thing and any adult should know this.

Wow man. I'm sorry that happened to him but I'm glad you finally got it figured out and taken care of.

I'll also add something else to not exactly defend the Redskins doctors but to put this all in perspective. The Redskins doctors are sports medicine doctors. They obviously, aren't specialist in certain areas, take a cancer specialist for example.

So it's really unrealistic to expect a sports teams doctors to correctly diagnose a tumor growth on a players head. That's why they told Trent to get a second opinion. It was Trent’s choice to not get a second opinion during the season - bc he wanted to be there for his team, which is admirable but not smart - and to wait until after the season to see a specialist.

Edited August 2, 2019 by turtle28

[turtle28]

 

[turtle28]

 😂 

[turtle28]

As to who reported the cyst info originally in regards to Trent, I was wrong before, it was Kevin Sheehan and then Paul Conner tweeted about it or someone else did.

Edited August 2, 2019 by turtle28

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Wow man. I'm sorry that happened to him but I'm glad you finally got it figured out and taken care of.

I'll also add something else to not exactly defend the Redskins doctors but to put this all in perspective. The Redskins doctors are sports medicine doctors. They obviously, aren't specialist in certain areas, take a cancer specialist for example.

So it's really unrealistic to expect a sports teams doctors to correctly diagnose a tumor growth on a players head. That's why they told Trent to get a second opinion. It was Trent’s choice to not get a second opinion during the season - bc he wanted to be there for his team, which is admirable but not smart - and to wait until after the season to see a specialist.

Thanks. As painful as the debridement was (while he sliced me open), the removal of the fluid inside immediately made the rest of the pain go away 

And I agree. As much as I dog on the staff for their ineptness when it come to sports medicine/training, they are not Oncologists and they did the right thing telling him to get a 2nd opinion

[RSkinGM]

It's the contract, just the contract and only the contract. The scalp thing is leverage.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, RSkinGM said:

It's the contract, just the contract and only the contract. The scalp thing is leverage.

I believe it’s a little bit of everything and this has been building for years, and not winning a playoff game when Trent was in his prime is part of it too but it’s true that Trent wants a raise and a contract extension too.

Since Trent signed his contract, he saw Norman get overpaid by the Redskins as a free agent coming from Carolina, Moses get a new contract, Kirk Cousins get overpaid on the franchise tag and then get overpaid on a guaranteed long term deal with the Vikings, and now Landon Collins get a big time deal from the Redskins.

Then, Trent is seeing Scherff, a guard getting offered a deal to pay him nearly as much as he makes and other teams guards getting paid as much as he makes and he feels he deserves a new contract too.

Edited August 2, 2019 by turtle28

[Woz]

16 hours ago, turtle28 said:

 

Well, Vernon Davis's contract expires regardless, so that's odd to bring up. I guess the point there is that it would "save" ~$6.25M next year since he would be a UFA?

In case any one is curious:

• Alex Smith (assuming a "June cut" (*)): $9.4M in savings 2020, $5.4M in dead cap in 2021 and 2022
• Trent Williams (**): ~$9.3M ($9,297,245 if you want to be completely accurate) in savings in 2020, $14.7M ($14,655,880) savings in 2021
• Josh Norman: $12.5M savings in 2020
• TOTALS 
  • Savings in 2020 = $31.2M
  • Savings in 2021 = $9.3M (Williams savings minus dead cap from Smith)
  • Loss in 2022 = $5.4M

 

Losing a good corner and franchise LT would certainly not help winning on the field, though.

 

 

(*) Tentatively speaking - I'm not sure how this insurance policy works, so I'm guessing a bit. Also not sure if you can use the "June cut" option with this or not.
(**) I treated this as if the signing bonus portion would fully hit the cap. It's possible they don't waive the fines and that means the 25% penalties apply to the cap. Again not sure on that front. If it could be removed, they could save another $405K in cap space in 2020.

[Woz]

15 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Waive the dang fees and work this out you bunch of idiots.

If he shows up, the fines will almost certainly be waived.

Until he shows up, though, that's the main leverage Washington has - those fines. So, it's unlikely they'll waive them until/unless he reports.

15 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Don’t alienate the best player we’ve put on the field since Sean Taylor just so Bruce can win his little war.

That ship may already have sailed ...

15 hours ago, lavar703 said:

If anybody deserves to be taken care of by this organization it’s Trent.

Yes.

15 hours ago, lavar703 said:

My god this situation is dumb.

Yes, but there's blame on both sides.

15 hours ago, lavar703 said:

And yes, I would fire the whole training staff for their horrible oversight with the growth on his head. 

If the reports are true, the staff did recommend that he get a second opinion (albeit they may have downplayed the severity), and it seems like second opinion is what created the whole "get your affairs in order" scare when it turned out to be benign.

So, yeah, they screwed up, but so did the second doctor. The problem for the staff is that have a crap record to date so they can be targeted.

Realistically, this stems from a lack of communication on both sides, with the front office letting a relationship fester for no reason that I can see other than spite or negligence (we can argue which is worse) and the player getting a severe scare but not explaining what those fears were.

[Woz]

2 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

It's the contract, just the contract and only the contract. The scalp thing is leverage.

I think I agree with @turtle28 on this one. The cyst may have been the final straw that turned this from "hey, give me a bit more coin and we're cool" to "you all are dead to me."

[naptownskinsfan]

25 minutes ago, Woz said:

Well, Vernon Davis's contract expires regardless, so that's odd to bring up. I guess the point there is that it would "save" ~$6.25M next year since he would be a UFA?

In case any one is curious:

• Alex Smith (assuming a "June cut" (*)): $9.4M in savings 2020, $5.4M in dead cap in 2021 and 2022
• Trent Williams (**): ~$9.3M ($9,297,245 if you want to be completely accurate) in savings in 2020, $14.7M ($14,655,880) savings in 2021
• Josh Norman: $12.5M savings in 2020
• TOTALS 
  • Savings in 2020 = $31.2M
  • Savings in 2021 = $9.3M (Williams savings minus dead cap from Smith)
  • Loss in 2022 = $5.4M

 

Losing a good corner and franchise LT would certainly not help winning on the field, though.

 

 

(*) Tentatively speaking - I'm not sure how this insurance policy works, so I'm guessing a bit. Also not sure if you can use the "June cut" option with this or not.
(**) I treated this as if the signing bonus portion would fully hit the cap. It's possible they don't waive the fines and that means the 25% penalties apply to the cap. Again not sure on that front. If it could be removed, they could save another $405K in cap space in 2020.

The insurance policy is applied as a credit to the cap when it becomes available.  The question has always been centered around when it becomes available, and can they save it or do they have to use it immediately.