Report - Dak Seeking 40m Per Year Deal

[BleedTheClock]

49 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Dak was the #3 QB in 2016 in terms of efficiency. He received an MVP vote. That was elite, arguably top 3 rookie season ever. 

I didn't know you were on the MVP selection committee.

Dak Prescott is a solid NFL QB that showed flashes of being really good. To claim he was ever elite is pure lunacy.

[Matts4313]

8 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I didn't know you were on the MVP selection committee.

Dak Prescott is a solid NFL QB that showed flashes of being really good. To claim he was ever elite is pure lunacy.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/passing.htm

Dak was literally 3rd in the single most important stat in all of football. Its the one that has, by far, the highest correlation with winning. It varies from season to season a tad, but the QB with a higher ANY/A wins ~80% of the time.

But he was also top 4 in Wins, 4QC, QBR, Passer Rating, INT %, Y/A, Comp %, GWD, rushing yards, rushing TDs

 

For the record, Dak has a career 97% win rate when his adjusted yards/attempt is above 8. 90% when its above 6. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Matts4313

[BleedTheClock]

9 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/passing.htm

Dak was literally 3rd in the single most important stat in all of football. Its the one that has, by far, the highest correlation with winning. It varies from season to season a tad, but the QB with a higher ANY/A wins ~80% of the time.

But he was also top 4 in Wins, 4QC, QBR, Passer Rating, INT %, Y/A, Comp %, GWD, rushing yards, rushing TDs

 

For the record, Dak has a career 97% win rate when his adjusted yards/attempt is above 8. 90% when its above 6. 

Cool. Stats.

No rational football coach, GM, owner, or fan would call Dak an elite QB at any point in time.

He played on a freaking LOADED football team with an insane run game, a hall of fame TE and RB (maybe), and had some legit WR's. He was also a game manager for them which is what inflated his stats. Stats are meaningless when the eye test is screaming something else.

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Cool. Stats.

No rational football coach, GM, owner, or fan would call Dak an elite QB at any point in time.

He played on a freaking LOADED football team with an insane run game, a hall of fame TE and RB (maybe), and had some legit WR's. He was also a game manager for them which is what inflated his stats. Stats are meaningless when the eye test is screaming something else.

Well, he got and MVP vote, rookie of the year, played toe to toe with rodgers in the playoffs, and was universally praised as being a ~top all time rookie QB.

 

So you are pretty much all alone with your stance. But stick to your guns.

[Nabbs4u]

3 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

You think Dak is/was an elite QB?

Have you not seen his constant unwavering support for Dak? He is Tom Brady 2.0. Just ask for the stats, Matts will provide those that apply.

 

Apologies,  quoted you before reading this page.  Well there you go! LOL😎

Edited August 16, 2019 by Nabbs4u

[Steelersfan43]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Dak was the #3 QB in 2016 in terms of efficiency. He received an MVP vote. That was elite, arguably top 3 rookie season ever. 

Dak post Cooper was top 10 (top 5 in some) in the following stats: QB Rating, Yards/Game, YPA, TDs, INTs, TD:INT ratio, Completion % and wins.

I would say that is borderline elite. 

Brady and Ryan were easily the two best QBs in the regular season ... The one who voted for Dak does not deserve to vote again.

Michael Vick already had a MVP vote ahead of Peyton Manning in 2004.Sometimes some voters have no credibility

[Matts4313]

31 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Cool. Stats.

No rational football coach, GM, owner, or fan would call Dak an elite QB at any point in time.

He played on a freaking LOADED football team with an insane run game, a hall of fame TE and RB (maybe), and had some legit WR's. He was also a game manager for them which is what inflated his stats. Stats are meaningless when the eye test is screaming something else.

 

26 minutes ago, Nabbs4u said:

Have you not seen his constant unwavering support for Dak? He is Tom Brady 2.0. Just ask for the stats, Matt will provide those that apply.

 

Apologies,  quoted you before reading this page.  Well there you go! LOL😎

Here ya go:

#14 player in the entire NFL. #5 QB.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Top_100_Players_of_2017

PFR had him #2 QB.

Quote

With 100 being league average, how many quarterbacks ranked above that number in all nine categories? Only four guys - Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Dak Prescott. Matt Ryan, for all his brilliance last year, fell below average in sack percentage. And, of these, Dak came out with the second highest average across the board.

https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2017/8/23/16186402/dak-prescott-was-in-elite-quarterback-company-last-year-dallas-cowboys

Quote

It wasn't Ezekiel Elliott who saw blitzes on third-and-long and anticipated throws into traffic before receivers broke on their routes. It wasn't the vaunted Cowboys offensive line that evaded the rush from Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier, then reset before delivering a perfect touchdown strike 50 yards down the field. The discussion about how great Prescott's situation was in 2016 largely ignored the juice needed to throw Dez Bryant open to the sideline from the opposite hash mark. Prescott matched NFL greats like Ben Roethlisberger and Aaron Rodgers throw for throw in shootouts.

There are practically no historical comparisons to Prescott's rookie season, although Dan Marino's comes close. And while there is no limit to his long-term potential, this ranking reflects a desire to wait and see how Year 2 unfolds before assuming he's ahead of other quarterbacks, including future Hall of Famers, who succeed year after year. It's going to be a fun ride, Cowboys fans. Don't be in such a rush.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000817355/article/qb-index-how-do-top-100-qbs-of-2017-stack-up

Quote

Dak Prescott, Cowboys

Started the season with the weight of replacing Tony Romo, then overcame a Jerry Jones-fueled QB controversy all season, leading Dallas to a 13-3 record and top playoff seed. He’s an insane 51-of-64 for 428 yards with 3 TDs and no INTs since his low point in that second loss to the Giants. Now he could become the first starting QB to win the Super Bowl as a rookie.

 

Fox sports had them ranked the #4 QB in the NFL going into the 2017 season ^^^^^^^^^^

 

So you silly Eagles fans can try to rewrite history all you want. But your arguments and comments are stupid. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Matts4313

[Soko]

2 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

Dak was the #3 QB in 2016 in terms of efficiency. He received an MVP vote. That was elite, arguably top 3 rookie season ever. 

Dak post Cooper was top 10 (top 5 in some) in the following stats: QB Rating, Yards/Game, YPA, TDs, INTs, TD:INT ratio, Completion % and wins.

I would say that is borderline elite. 

Simple yes or no question. You think Dak Prescott is an elite quarterback? I’ll even specify: you think Dak Prescott is an elite quarterback right now?

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Nabbs4u said:

Have you not seen his constant unwavering support for Dak? He is Tom Brady 2.0. Just ask for the stats, Matts will provide those that apply.

 

Apologies,  quoted you before reading this page.  Well there you go! LOL😎

I just want to see how far off the edge he is. 

Dak’s mom wouldn’t call him an elite QB.

[Matts4313]

Just now, Yin-Yang said:

Simple yes or no question. You think Dak Prescott is an elite quarterback? I’ll even specify: you think Dak Prescott is an elite quarterback right now?

Obviously no. Thats a really dumb question to ask, imo. 

He is in the 10ish-15ish range, right along Wentz, Watson, Cam, Baker and others I am sure I am forgetting. 

I do think Dak will be in the top 10 this season if everything doesnt fall apart around him. He was playing like a top 10 QB towards the end of last year.  

[Matts4313]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I just want to see how far off the edge he is. 

Dak’s mom wouldn’t call him an elite QB.

Instead of ridiculous questions and responses like this, how about you attempt to refute anything I said. If I am stating facts and backing up my facts, I expect others to do the same. 

"whoamygod, this dude is so crazy, he literally provided statistical evidence, quotes from analytics and media to support his opinion. HE CRAZZY"

:rollseyes:

[Nabbs4u]

4 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I just want to see how far off the edge he is. 

Dak’s mom wouldn’t call him an elite QB.

Ohh , you haven't even scratched the surface. He backflipped off that edge 3 yrs ago when he legit argued in our forum for months that Dak is and will be the next Tom Brady!

Here's the stats that back me up......🍺

[Soko]

10 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Obviously no. Thats a really dumb question to ask, imo. 

He is in the 10ish-15ish range, right along Wentz, Watson, Cam, Baker and others I am sure I am forgetting. 

I do think Dak will be in the top 10 this season if everything doesnt fall apart around him. He was playing like a top 10 QB towards the end of last year.  

If it’s obviously no, then why say this...

7 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

I will make it easier. Show me a guy who was elite => sucked => elite again with the time being elite being the vast majority of the time over a significant amount of games. IE - no fitzpatrick was elite 2 weeks, sucked, then had 4 great games. 

...If Dak isn’t an elite QB? Creating parameters - especially false ones - to frame a player as some sort of historical, unprecedented phenomena, almost always goes badly. 

Dak has never been top 10 statistically in the relevant bulk stats that most people look at (passing yards or touchdowns). He has been top 10 in passer rating just once, 3 years ago. He has been ranked in the top 10 in TD% once, 3 years ago, when he placed T-9th. He was ranked top 10 in YPA once, 3 years ago, at 4th. He has been 4th in completion percentage in 16’ and 10th in completion percentage in 2018.

So to call him “top 5/10 statistically for 40+ games” is incredibly disingenuous, and in this case, just wrong.  

EDIT: You implied Dak was an elite QB. That is ridiculous and you should expect people to comment on it instead of playing the victim.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Yin-Yang

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

If it’s obviously no, then why say this...

...If Dak isn’t an elite QB? Creating parameters - especially false ones - to frame a player as some sort of historical, unprecedented phenomena, almost always goes badly. 

Dak has never been top 10 statistically in the relevant bulk stats that most people look at (passing yards or touchdowns). He has been top 10 in passer rating just once, 3 years ago. He has been ranked in the top 10 in TD% once, 3 years ago, when he placed T-9th. He was ranked top 10 in YPA once, 3 years ago, at 4th. He has been 4th in completion percentage in 16’ and 10th in completion percentage in 2018.

So to call him “top 5/10 statistically for 40+ games” is incredibly disingenuous, and in this case, just wrong.  

EDIT: You implied Dak was an elite QB. That is ridiculous and you should expect people to comment on it instead of playing the victim.

Are you really not understanding that comment and then the follow up comments? 

Is it confusing to you - seriously? 

I have seen you post enough to think you posses a more sophisticated reading comprehension ability. For his 1st *25* games he put up over a 100 QB rating. For the past *13* games, he put up over a 100 QB rating. For his *3* playoff games, he has put up a near 100 QB rating. Thats 41 games he has been near ~top 10ish. 

He has 1 terrible 10 game stretch when the entire team collapsed, himself included. The OL was rated anywhere between bottom 4-10 in passblocking depending whose analytics you trust. The WR core was rated dead last in the NFL in getting open. That singular 10 game stretch Dak looked like complete and total crap. Dak himself readily admitted he got the yips and had to work through it. Unfortunately those 10 games span the end of '17 to the start of '18. Which means if you slice is career up the traditional way (by year) he doesnt look very good. But if you put context on it, the story changes.

He was top 3 efficiency QB in 16. 

He was top 10 in '17 until the Falcons game (where he died). 

He was top 10 in '18 after we acquired 1 credible passing target (cooper).

Elite. Trash. Back to top 10 statistically. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Matts4313

[Matts4313]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

So to call him “top 5/10 statistically for 40+ games” is incredibly disingenuous, and in this case, just wrong.  

Specifically to address this again outside of my larger post:

Fact 1: regarding the 40 games of top 10 stats:

https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/1090794435615617024/photo/1

Fact 2: If you look over 2016-2018 cumulatively (32 game min. played; accounting for the injury prone Wentz),

Dak is:

#8 in rating

#11 in ANY/A

#6 in CMP%

#5 in INTs

#7 in combined TDs

#2 in wins

#1 in GWD.

That is pretty much top 10 in all the stats that matter (efficiency, not bulk. Bulk is a stupid measurement for the ill-informed.)

So its neither disingenuous nor wrong. You are either ignorant to the facts or are purposely being obtuse.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2016&year_max=2018&season_start=1&season_end=-1&pos[]=qb&draft_year_min=1936&draft_year_max=2019&draft_slot_min=1&draft_slot_max=500&draft_pick_in_round=pick_overall&conference=any&draft_pos[]=qb&draft_pos[]=rb&draft_pos[]=wr&draft_pos[]=te&draft_pos[]=e&draft_pos[]=t&draft_pos[]=g&draft_pos[]=c&draft_pos[]=ol&draft_pos[]=dt&draft_pos[]=de&draft_pos[]=dl&draft_pos[]=ilb&draft_pos[]=olb&draft_pos[]=lb&draft_pos[]=cb&draft_pos[]=s&draft_pos[]=db&draft_pos[]=k&draft_pos[]=p&c1stat=g&c1comp=gt&c1val=32&c5val=1.0&order_by=pass_td

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

EDIT: You implied Dak was an elite QB. That is ridiculous and you should expect people to comment on it instead of playing the victim.

If you had read any of the further comments you should have been able to easily understand I said he had elite stretches of play, not that he was an elite QB.