thebestever6 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: We are approaching this rebuild like a team that has enough current talent to be competitive, and that isn't the case. This is the to be determined until the trade deadline passes and moves aren't made. I could care less what Elway says to the media. Your opinions on Lock I can't switch I'm not going to try to. It's frankly impossible given the Brock and Paxton picks. I love the pick at pick 42. He has the type of confidence that can go through a rebuild and come out the other side a stronger player ala Matt Stafford in 09'. Especially, with this OC who I'm starting to buy into. I'm not gonna say ceiling or floor I just think it's a good bet Lock is a decent pick at pick 42. Edited September 30, 2019 by thebestever6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Quote I'm not gonna say ceiling or floor I just think it's a good bet Lock is a decent pick at pick 42. I don't think there is room for Lock to be a decent pick. He is either a competent starter or not, and I simply don't see him as that guy. I think Erik McCoy, AJ Brown, Zach Allen and Greedy Williams would have all been much better picks. I would be surprised if each of those guys didn't become starting level players in this league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I don't think there is room for Lock to be a decent pick. He is either a competent starter or not, and I simply don't see him as that guy. I think Erik McCoy, AJ Brown, Zach Allen and Greedy Williams would have all been much better picks. I would be surprised if each of those guys didn't become starting level players in this league. Would you consider a Qb on a Jay Cutler/tony romo/ Matthew Stafford type spectrum to be competent starter? I would. Rich Scangarello- he's a Matchups based oc. I'm going to tell you how Locks development will go this year. Instead of reading defenses he's going to exploit matchups that's how Rich will get him comfortable. Once he masters that he will start progressing through reads. I think Rich will help Lock become a competent starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Quote Would you consider a Qb on a Jay Cutler/tony romo/ Matthew Stafford type spectrum to be competent starter? I would. I don't think Lock is going to be nearly as good as any of them. I see a more athletic Chad Henne. I guess we just need to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I don't think Lock is going to be nearly as good as any of them. I see a more athletic Chad Henne. I guess we just need to wait and see. That's the approach I'm taking after Jeff Fisher got done derailing Goff, and Mcvay turned him around that's the approach I take. Lock has the tools, ability, and OC for the job. That lowers the bust rate but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I don’t have an issue with the Lock pick. Denver has to continue taking swings trying to get a young player at the position. However, after seeing him live at training camp I think he’s a long shot at becoming a franchise caliber QB. Elway has tried to bandaid this team since the SB win, he tried it again this year and again it hasn’t worked. This is just a bad football team, but I agree with @BroncoBruin that there are still some exciting things to watch with our young offensive talent. At this point I really don’t care if Denver wins a game this season. I hope the young talent shows progress and this team ends up with a pick in the top 5-6 to put themselves in a position to get one of the elite players in this draft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 The interesting part of where Denver picks is Justin Herbert. IIRC, he seemed to be getting a TON of attention from Elway and Company and then returned to school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I think the Lock pick was another in a long line of Elway being too afraid to swing and miss on a true top tier QB and settling for another measurables guy. Lock is terrifyingly similar in attributes to both Lynch and Brock. Fant was BPA after a trade down. He was an elite talent and I had no issues w/ that pick. Elway certainly didn't see him as a TE that would take long to get on the field, he has played 70% of TE snaps so far. Elway has been faux rebuilding for a few years now. A true rebuild starts with identifying a franchise QB and getting him. We seem to be the only team in this league that is incapable of cashing in on the pretty unique surplus of young QB talent. We are approaching this rebuild like a team that has enough current talent to be competitive, and that isn't the case. I’ll admit that after so much talk on Lock at 1.10 then 1.20 then the fear of passing on Risner at 2.41 I was almost numb when Elway finally took him. As you know I wouldn’t have taken Lock either lol. But it’s almost like it was the least painful outcome short of passing altogether on him lol. Which we know just isn’t in Elway’s QB evaluation DNA. I see the same flaws but at least we will get a 6+ game audition to get more info. And 100 percent agreed on the faux rebuilding. Restructuring Von to get Veldheer / Clinton McDonald / Tramaine Brock in 2018. Then trading a 5th for Dekoda Watson with 1 year left on his contract and signing Theo Riddick who is again a 1-year guy. Even Kareem Jackson (31 is the issue not his play) triggered a showdown with CHJ that has him confirmed to be gone this year (since no franchise tag as per restructure that resulted). Anyone who argues that Elway isn’t trying to have it both ways is ignoring the cap $$ / pick capital Elway is throwing away in failed win now moves. To say he’s fully committed to a rebuild is a joke. If he was he wouldn’t be throwing away cap space and picks on guys with no org future. Elway should have just targeted 2020 as earliest ETA at latest by midseason last year and for sure this offseason (I said do it at draft and god no Keenum but hey what’s done is done lol) . Even the players knew it was a rebuild at year end interviews last year. But not Elway. By not going that way and trying to have it both ways, he’s already pushed our likely earlier to ETA to legitimately compete for playoffs and be sustainable until 2021. At the earliest. But it has to start now. Otherwise Elway may not the guy in charge come 2021. Edited September 30, 2019 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Even Kareem Jackson (31 is the issue not his play) triggered a showdown with CHJ that has him confirmed to be gone this year (since no franchise tag as per restructure that resulted). Anyone who argues that Elway isn’t trying to have it both ways is ignoring the cap $$ / pick capital Elway is throwing away in failed win now moves. To say he’s fully committed to a rebuild is a joke. If he was he wouldn’t be throwing away cap space and picks on guys with no org future. I think Elway got caught with his pants down with the signing of Kareem Jackson. I believe with Chris Harris and his original contract were as good as gone. The way that all went down was inexcusable /handled so poorly. Dekota Watson was that a favor to get Rich from San Francisco who knows. Whats the floor Denver had to reach cap commitment wise and how far above it did they go? Or was is already reached with 2018s dead money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Quote Elway should have just targeted 2020 as earliest ETA this offseason. By not going that way he’s already pushed our likely earlier to ETA to legitimately compete for playoffs and be sustainable until 2021. At the earliest. But it has to start now. Otherwise Elway may not the guy in charge come 2021. Something else that really hurts is Barrett showing out so well in TB. Everyone knew he was a starting talent, albeit nowhere near as good as he has been in TB. I still think we should have seen him as the future running mate w/ Von and made that BUF trade in 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: I think Elway got caught with his pants down with the signing of Kareem Jackson. I believe with Chris Harris and his original contract were as good as gone. The way that all went down was inexcusable /handled so poorly. Dekota Watson was that a favor to get Rich from San Francisco who knows. Whats the floor Denver had to reach cap commitment wise and how far above it did they go? Or was is already reached with 2018s dead money? Either way spending $ on Riddick shows where Elway’s head is at. 2017 with Veldheer / Brock / McDonald. Considering a vet backup instead of Lock for week 1 (remember I argued it was going to be a vet as backup week 1 not because they would be good, or it bring the right call for a rebuilder, but because Elway can’t think anything but win now to start the year). Elway can’t help but try to play it both ways. It’s in his DNA. What made him great as a player. But it’s delaying our ETA to a true return to contention and outside of QB evaluation it’s the biggest threat to his remaining as DEN GM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Broncofan said: (remember I argued it was going to be a vet as backup week 1 not because they would be good, or it bring the right call for a rebuilder, but because Elway can’t think anything but win now to start the year). I do remember that I never saw Hogan making this team so reps were mishandled in preseason that's definitely the case if that's the argument. But even Patrick Mahomes was the third stringer to start out 2017 for the Chiefs and moved to 2 by the end of the preseason. It's not Elways fault Lock got hurt game 3 out of 5. This year feels different than 2018,2017, heck even 2016. People forget the o line was depleted at the end of the superbowl run Harris walked, Mathis Ancient, Vasquez retired ancient. It wasn't just Peyton, and Ware leaving. The Cardinal sin this franchise Made was extending Von. You can't sell a fanbase on a rebuild after doing that he was superbowl mvp. This year feels different watch. Edited September 30, 2019 by thebestever6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Quote I think Elway got caught with his pants down with the signing of Kareem Jackson. I believe with Chris Harris and his original contract were as good as gone. The way that all went down was inexcusable /handled so poorly. I don't understand this logic. At the end of the day Elway decided to pay the 30+ Jackson huge money. You act like he slipped on a banana peel and accidently signed the contract. Kareem would have been a good signing for a team looking for that swiss army knife to put them over the top. For a rebuilding team like Denver, give me Roby back or Adrian Amos for cheaper. I could see the argument to sign the older vet if Jackson was known as a locker room leader (Something we fully lack), but he isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, champ11 said: I really like Bausby. He seems like a potential starting caliber player He's looking like a keeper. I was also impressed with Duke Dawson in the nickel, only here 5 or so weeks and looked comfortable. They're responsible for the two back breaking passing plays on the last drive, but that's life as a young corner. Overall, the pass defense played well. You hope one or two of these corners can be answers, because the starting DL and ILBs are a disaster. And Will Parks missed about 100 tackles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I could see the argument to sign the older vet if Jackson was known as a locker room leader (Something we fully lack), but he isn't. I think his Physicality as a db was coveted. If Bausby, or Dawson inherit that trait and turn into players it's worth the move. I'm not sure what kind of leader he is I know he and Jonathan Joseph were on Houston for a long time. I'm not saying he's Brian Dawkins lol. Edited September 30, 2019 by thebestever6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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