Week 4 GDT: Jacksonville Jaguars @ Denver Broncos

[MakeDenverGreatAgain]

10 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Some more notes:

-I think we have some really good coaches. I think the coaches understand that they can probably make a couple short term scheme-related fixes to benefit the players they have now. But it probably makes more sense to let things play out as they will this year and keep everything on message. The long term vision is more important than making the Shelby Harrises of the world more effective. 

-I like the way Scangarello breaks down defenses. I had somewhat low expectations and have been fairly impressed. Next year, bring in more speed at WR. 

-DaeSean Hamilton doing something! But a killer drop. A non-athlete like Hamilton needs to have sure hands. 

-Noah Fant looks about as advertised, so long as you didn't expect a 21 year old rookie tight end to light up the NFL. Was exciting to see him in space.

-Re-sign Connor McGovern. With Risner and McGovern, you have 2 out of 5. You hope Ja'Wuan James can be 3. Find the other 2.

-Wolfe, Shelby Harris, Gotsis, Davis, Jewell, Nelson, Parks...none of these players have any business starting on a Vic Fangio defense. I'm not even sure Shelby Harris should be playing, which would have sounded insane months ago. He can't play NT and it's more important to see what Walker and Jones bring as interior rushers.

-Justin Hollins really looked lost in space. Minshew had most of his success before the last drive attacking Hollins. That's okay. He needs all the reps he can get. 

-Justin Simmons is an incredible talent and even without the turnovers, it's showing in coverage. But in his fourth year, he's still an absolute joke at making plays on runners in space. Whether it's a screen or run, you can bet Justin will be diving and hugging at air, sidestepping his way out of the action or getting blocked by some 180 pound receiver. He is so unbelievably soft and it would be nice if just once he could work through the trash and hit someone. 

No doubt that this is something that you would expect to see improve, but with rule changes to help promote player safety and less time actually working on hitting in camp, it's tough for these players to grow. 

I fully expect tackling in the NFL to continue to deteriorate as college players can spend less time tackling in camp, and fully expect to see more and more DBs diving at legs and not running through tackles.

[thebestever6]

13 minutes ago, Calamity_Cometh said:

I'm disappointed in Vons performance ever since the Super Bowl but in all honesty, in terms of performance and the goal, he earned his money that year. That entire year the most I expected was a wild card berth after the back half of 2014. Even when we beat the Pats in the championship, I felt our luck was over.

He deserved to be paid for that run no question, extraordinary.  I think he would of had an extension prior to that run had it not been for early immaturity in his career. The parallels to him and Joe Flacco are surreal. 

That 2016 offseason is my craziest as a fan. From Malik leaving, to Peyton retiring, to Brock taking the money from the texans and running, 3/5ths of the oline gone.

That showdown between Elway and Von was by far the craziest. They both had soooo much leverage ( the most Von will ever have or Elway as a gm will have.)

 

[champ11]

4 hours ago, champ11 said:

We've all discussed this so often....but I'll just go in again. This team miiight have the talent of a 5-8 win team in a vacuum/on paper. But on the field, the team crumbles with adversity and has no fight. Of course at the core of things that is on the players.....but in actuality it is the result of the organizational direction and expectations.

John Elway and the organization have already ruined the season. When you set unrealistic expectations and can't hit them......the season is over. These guys have already failed in their purpose of being a competitive playoff team. How are you going to fight when the battle is already lost?

This team has an untenable mixture of young guys and guys that have already tasted success and been paid for it. It's not going to be a coincidence that the top performers the rest of the season are going to be guys on their rookie contracts. 

Elway talking about playoffs at the start of the season is absurd. I know that is the masculinity mindset of football...but realistically this season should have been about "getting better" and improving each week. Instead we have a patched together roster that makes no sense and a bunch of guys that are ready to give up on the season...again.

Mike Lombardi going in on a similar topic https://theathletic.com/1254431/2019/09/30/from-the-gms-eye-the-game-of-football-cant-be-controlled-through-the-front-office-when-will-john-elway-learn-that/

 

Quote

What Elway has never understood is that he must build a cohesive organization, he must develop a core philosophy of player procurement that adheres to the overall philosophy of the team—that everyone understands. The way Elway has set things up, the blame centers on the coaching and not on his overall ability to build a winning culture. The organizational manifest must come from him, it must be written in detail, and everyone has to buy-in. His job is to define the culture, then make sure everyone is working toward a common goal. This is hard work, and prior playing experience doesn’t provide you with or allow you any shortcuts. It requires time spent inside the building, teaching the younger members what to expect and how to develop talent on and off the field. As Al Davis would often tell me, “Kid, you cannot work in the NFL, you have to live in the NFL.”

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by champ11

[BroncoBruin]

I'm really curious who the defensive "eye in the sky" is. 

[lomaxgrUK]

13 hours ago, champ11 said:

Mike Lombardi going in on a similar topic https://theathletic.com/1254431/2019/09/30/from-the-gms-eye-the-game-of-football-cant-be-controlled-through-the-front-office-when-will-john-elway-learn-that/

 

 

I saw that article - brutal. I normally scoff at Lombardi and his insistence that everything is done like the Patriots (the guy wrote a book about BB), especially when he has sucked in every Front Office position for the last 20 years, but he's right here. This team has fallen to pieces from a cultural standpoint without Peyton Manning and Demarcus Ware. 

I just heard on a podcast that there have been four RBs to rush for 200 yards or more since 2017; three of those have been against the Broncos .............. At least I know it's as bad as it feels, rather than me being a hypochondriac!

 I also only just saw that Fournette only had 35 yards at half time, meaning he went for 190 in the 2nd half alone. What is the record for one half? Incredible. Nicki Jhabvala claims there were 14 missed tackles in the 2nd half, which obviously propelled Fournette. 

14. In one half.

Edited October 1, 2019 by lomaxgrUK

[thebestever6]

4 hours ago, lomaxgrUK said:

This team has fallen to pieces from a cultural standpoint without Peyton Manning and Demarcus Ware. 

Many have said this on this forum Lombardi in my opinion was swayed towards a former athlete being a gm in the article. 

Leadership, an organizational manifest are all built during seasons like this. We saw Fangio doing it in camp letting defensive players talk it out rather than coaches helping them. " You won't be able to help them in a game." 

Offensively, we will see we'll find out what Lock has, Fant, Sutton, Risner, Lindsay. When losing happens but coaching doesn't suffer, or effort, or willingness to be coached your left with the future of the team and manifest. 

[BroncosFan2010]

Assuming we do the right thing and move the vets, we are going to be looking at huge amounts of cap space in 2020. Since we have to spend some, I would like to get some culture changers in here. Obviously a QB is the best move if you want to do that, but signing a veteran QB is beyond stupid given the state of this team. Guys like Andrew Whitworth, Larry Fitzgerald, Danny Trevathan, Kyle Long, Terrell Suggs, could really help this culture. They are all band aids, but each one could really help this culture IMO.

The team changed from talented to a contender when we added Peyton, Ware and yes, Talib. Right now we don't have a single leader on this team. Von is just a dude that is killer at football, not a leader of men. And that isn't his fault, you cant really force that personality trait IMO. He would come off as Jameis 'Eat a W' Winston if he tried to be someone other than himself. CHJ and Manny were peripheral leaders when we had the council of Peyton/Ware/Talib around. After a few years of losing, they just don't have that trait anymore.

 

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Guys like Andrew Whitworth, Larry Fitzgerald, Danny Trevathan, Kyle Long, Terrell Suggs, could really help this culture. They are all band aids, but each one could really help this culture IMO.

One or two guys like this might be options. I see bargain bin type free agent hunting more than anything. Younger hungery guys that are borderline starters, or probably should get a chance to start.

Guys hungry for that big payday, and see starter reps here.

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

One or two guys like this might be options. I see bargain bin type free agent hunting more than anything. Younger hungery guys that are borderline starters, or probably should get a chance to start.

Guys hungry for that big payday, and see starter reps here.

I generally agree, but we need some veterans that will help propel this team in the right direction. Signing a bunch of Ja'Juwan James types isn't helping this locker room much. Proven leaders that can still produce despite their age would do wonders IMO.

I would have little issue throwing money at Trevathan, Long and Suggs. You need an ILB of Danny's caliber to even begin implementing the new defense; a mobile, tough and charismatic OG in Long to replace Leary and a grizzled vet in Suggs to replace Von once he is dealt for a FRP.

[thebestever6]

27 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

tough and charismatic OG in Long to replace Leary and a grizzled vet in Suggs to replace Von once he is dealt for a FRP.

Suggs is a machine, Trevathan all depends on how much like that idea,To me Long is going down a similar road as Leary his body physically has eroded his talents. If he comes in as a bargain as a stop gap maybe. 

We have Munchak I don't know how long he wants to coach for. I'd rather get the talent through the draft. Unless there's a guard or tackle that is too good to pass up value and age wise.

Edited October 1, 2019 by thebestever6

[AKRNA]

On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 9:00 AM, Malfatron said:

another very very close loss

do you think the broncos come out next week extra desperate and motivated, or will they go into the tank in your opinion?

No body knows. We'll find out how they respond Sunday though.

I'm hoping they come to play and play hard. That'd be enough for me.

[BroncoBruin]

Trevathan would make a lot of sense, obviously. 

I think they are going to spend to try to get the DL right. 

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

Trevathan would make a lot of sense, obviously. 

I think they are going to spend to try to get the DL right. 

Ya, the scheme seems to call for extremely large 34DE's that play with tons of power. This team doesn't have that. Wolfe was a balanced 34DE between rushing and taking blocks, now he is JAG. Gotsis is showing himself to be JAG and Shelby needs to be tried at 34DE again or benched.

I have wanted to add Danny Shelton for some time. He could shore up the middle of this D. Like most NE steals, the Browns gave up on him too soon and he has developed very well. Always wary to pay a Patriot b/c of the scheme, but Shelton has undeniable natural talent. Guy can take on 3 blockers.

Roy Robertson-Harris is growing into a great 34DE in Chicago but is a RFA and will likely get a R2 tender. IDK about paying that price.

Does Dre'Mont even fit this scheme as a starter? The starting 34DE in Chicago are well above 300lbs. Bilal Nichols (6'3, 306lbs)  / Akiem Hicks (6'5, 318lbs) w/ rotational pass rushers / Roy Robertson-Harris (6'7, 291lbs) / Jonathan Harris (6'4, 288lbs)

 

[BroncoBruin]

3 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ya, the scheme seems to call for extremely large 34DE's that play with tons of power. This team doesn't have that. Wolfe was a balanced 34DE between rushing and taking blocks, now he is JAG. Gotsis is showing himself to be JAG and Shelby needs to be tried at 34DE again or benched.

I have wanted to add Danny Shelton for some time. He could shore up the middle of this D. Like most NE steals, the Browns gave up on him too soon and he has developed very well. Always wary to pay a Patriot b/c of the scheme, but Shelton has undeniable natural talent. Guy can take on 3 blockers.

Roy Robertson-Harris is growing into a great 34DE in Chicago but is a RFA and will likely get a R2 tender. IDK about paying that price.

Does Dre'Mont even fit this scheme as a starter? The starting 34DE in Chicago are well above 300lbs. Bilal Nichols (6'3, 306lbs)  / Akiem Hicks (6'5, 318lbs) w/ rotational pass rushers / Roy Robertson-Harris (6'7, 291lbs) / Jonathan Harris (6'4, 288lbs)

 

It's a good year to look for iDL guys in free agency, probably not so much in the draft.

I also really like Robertson-Harris but can't imagine the Bears put themselves in a spot where they can't pay the 3 million for a 2nd tender. 

Some other guys to look at: A'Shawn Robinson, DJ Reader, David Onyemata, Javon Hargrave, Jarran Reed, Michael Pierce, Michael Brockers 

[iLikeDefense]

Perhaps we move Harris to 34DE and have Purcell start at NT? Have to think harris would be better in that role.