mtmmike Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I mean, yeah of course, it typically takes a smaller sample size for people to be willing to commit to a player or coach than it does to move on from them. This isn’t new or unique. Players earn starting gigs after a few great games when given a chance due to injury for example. They don’t then typically lose a job after just a poor game, there’s some level of patience. Posters like brownie were ready to move on from Freddie after a month and a half, which even by Browns standards is absurd. Once you commit to Freddie being the coach, you have to give him some time to implement his system. That’s not unique to him or anyone else. And to be clear, no one wanted Freddie as the HC because of his overwhelming qualifications, it was purely because he had our rookie QB playing at an elite level the last half of the year and they (we) didn’t want to lose that. You think the fans are restless now, imagine if we’d have let Freddie walk and Baker would have started slow anyway. Jesus, Mary and Joseph people would be calling for Dorsey’s head. At some point you have to look at his lack of relevant experience and anticipate or at least accept that there would be some potential learning curve. My reason for liking Freddy is he seems to work well with Dorsey and mayfield. One more offseason like last year and I can coach this team to a super bowl. Most people seem to forget we can have 3more off seasons like last year if you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 55 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: I don't know why, but I have a feeling we're going to demolish them today. Pittsburgh has been absolutely toasted by running backs out of the back field because they have Fitzpatrick on wr. look at hunt when he played Pittsburgh let alone hunt and Chubb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: And keeping Hue for 2 seasons was absolutely the correct move, bringing him back for year 3 was the issue. Hue lost the team. Players hated him and some even subtly spoke out (McCourtey) while they were here. That was the big issue. It’s also not seeming to be an issue for Freddie as of yet. You have it in your head he’s been woefully incompetent and the sole reason we’re 3-6. He hasn’t been and he’s not. You can’t commit 4 turnovers against the Seahawks and win. Those aren’t on coaching. You can’t turn the ball over 3 straight plays and spot the defending champs a 17 point lead at home and win. Those aren’t on coaching. Were there some games that the coaching was suspect? Sure. It’s a first time HC with an all new staff and a young team. If you’re surprised they weren’t running like Swiss watch, the issue is your expectations. For whatever reason you have it stuck in your head that he can’t improve, his decision making can’t improve, his understanding of the roster and coaches can’t improve, etc. They can. Will they? We’ll see. If not, he’s probably gone. If they do, there’s no reason to fire him just because of some overblown butt frustration from fans in the first half of the season. It’s a myopic view at best. The problem is it hasn’t improved. It’s week 11 and up till now he has still looked terrible. Denver and Buffalo we’re still bad coaching games. Like he’s bad man he’s by far the worst HC in the NFL right now. a lot of the problems that have put us in these situations have been his play calling. im not the only one saying this. Turn on any radio or watch any show. People who know football have all pointed out how much Freddie has struggled. It starts with him. Discipline starts with him. Like Jarvis taunting is because Freddie let’s him get away with that stuff. He’s setting the culture and it’s stupid and a losing mentality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtmmike Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, brownie man said: The problem is it hasn’t improved. It’s week 11 and up till now he has still looked terrible. Denver and Buffalo we’re still bad coaching games. Like he’s bad man he’s by far the worst HC in the NFL right now. a lot of the problems that have put us in these situations have been his play calling. im not the only one saying this. Turn on any radio or watch any show. People who know football have all pointed out how much Freddie has struggled. It starts with him. Discipline starts with him. Like Jarvis taunting is because Freddie let’s him get away with that stuff. He’s setting the culture and it’s stupid and a losing mentality 2 of are wins are against playoff level teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, mtmmike said: 2 of are wins are against playoff level teams Ravens - Nick Chubb won that game. Bills - We almost lost we won in spite. If Chris Hubbard doesn’t commit that false start and we go for it, and do get it and lose Freddie is gone the next day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, brownie man said: Ravens - Nick Chubb won that game. And he lost us the Patriots game. Bad coaching of Chubb against the Patriots? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, brownie man said: Ravens - Nick Chubb won that game. Bills - We almost lost we won in spite. If Chris Hubbard doesn’t commit that false start and we go for it, and do get it and lose Freddie is gone the next day Doubt it. So, let me get this straight - Freddie deserves all of the blame when we lose, but he also deserves none of the credit when we win? Gotcha. Look, I've been critical of Freddie this season. That *** whoopin' we got in San Francisco is mainly his fault. He's made his fair share of boneheaded decisions. But to act like all of our woes are solely on Freddie is simply not fair or true. Edited November 14, 2019 by DawgX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said: And he lost us the Patriots game. Bad coaching of Chubb against the Patriots? Three turnovers on three straight plays are clearly the fault of the HC. At least according to a significant portion of this forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, brownie man said: The problem is it hasn’t improved. It’s week 11 and up till now he has still looked terrible. Denver and Buffalo we’re still bad coaching games. Like he’s bad man he’s by far the worst HC in the NFL right now. a lot of the problems that have put us in these situations have been his play calling. No, that’s the super basic answer. Play calling is the problem with the play is executed properly and it fails. It’s not play calling when the team fails because they can’t execute the play. The 4th down draw play, that’s a play calling issue. Drops, false starts, holding, interceptions, fumbles, running the wrong route or running a route to the incorrect depth, etc isn’t “play calling” or coaching, it’s a lack of execution by the players. Our issues this season have been overwhelming more the latter than the former. 13 minutes ago, brownie man said: im not the only one saying this. Turn on any radio or watch any show. People who know football have all pointed out how much Freddie has struggled. Yes, because sports talk radio and talking heads are known for their deep wisdom. <insert clip of Screamin’ A. telling us how Haskins is a run first QB> 13 minutes ago, brownie man said: It starts with him. Discipline starts with him. Like Jarvis taunting is because Freddie let’s him get away with that stuff. He’s setting the culture and it’s stupid and a losing mentality The discipline of grown *** men starts with the grown *** men, not some other dude. Where do people come up with this ish? If you act like an idiot, is that your boss’s fault? I can’t listen to the boomerific ideas of coaches needing to “get tough” or whatever else. There’s literally one coach who manages to pull that off and he’s got half a dozen rings. The rest end up like McDaniels or whatever other “tough” coach you want to mention and lose the locker room and get fired. It’s 2019 my guy, not 1979. If the personalities on the team are an issue, look to the GM who acquired them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Just now, Thomas5737 said: And he lost us the Patriots game. Bad coaching of Chubb against the Patriots? lol Honestly Nick Chubb can do no wrong in my eyes so I shouldn’t be taken too serious when it comes to anything dealing with him. 1 minute ago, DawgX said: Doubt it. So, let me get this straight - Freddie deserves all of the blame when we lose, but he also deserves none of the credit when we win? Gotcha. Look, I've been critical of Freddie this season. That *** whoopin' we got in San Francisco is mainly his fault. He's made his fair share of boneheaded decisions. But to act like all our woes are solely on Freddie is simply not fair. He doesn’t deserve it all. But if we had an average coach we beat Seattle, Denver, and Rams probably. and overall I think our weekly execution would be better and we’d be further along now. the players have been effing up, but it’s because of the culture we have. He’s the substitute teacher man I’m telling you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said: And he lost us the Patriots game. Bad coaching of Chubb against the Patriots? They coached him to do that apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, DawgX said: So, let me get this straight - Freddie deserves all of the blame when we lose, but he also deserves none of the credit when we win? Gotcha. 3 minutes ago, DawgX said: Three turnovers on three straight plays are clearly the fault of the HC. As long as I’m not the only one seeing this nonsense, I’m good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 We're all critical of Freddie because we are 3-6 and expected to be 5-4 at this point and in the end it all falls on him so it is deserved. The over the top critiques make those of us who are just realistically critical of him defend him. Freddie has went away from the downfield routes because of the O-Line, he has adapted. Defenses know we can't protect long enough to go downfield so it isn't easy. Our defense isn't great, most glaring is the lack of pass rush (somehow) and stopping the run. We can run the ball and are struggling to scheme people open and finishing catches. Baker also has failed to lead comebacks by turning the ball over. Freddie will get the blame for the overall product but that doesn't mean he gets the blame for each players play, he can't control it if our tackles are struggling unless he benches them and bring in an equally bad player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: They coached him to do that apparently. I do think you give Freddie less credit for the losing than he does deserve though. Chubbs 2 fumbles were absolutely not freddies fault and I'm glad we kept rolling with Chubb even with 2 consecutive fumbles. The flip pass in that situation was pretty stupid after 2 consecutive fumbles. Is that the head coaches fault? no. Is the offensive coordinator in part to blame. Yeah probably. All that being said the NE game was in no way Kitchen's fault. The Seattle game, however, was probably freddies fault. Instead of just running the ball, slowing tempo, and going into the half with at minimum a 23-12 lead, he "wants to get the ball back again" and runs a no huddle hurry up, an interception happens and instead we go into the half 20-18. That game was in our hands and we just couldn't make smart decisions... I think its more Freddie than you are willing to admit, but CERTAINLY not as much as other people are willing to blame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: I do think you give Freddie less credit for the losing than he does deserve though. I mean, he’s definitely crapped the bed a couple times I’ll readily admit that. 2 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: Chubbs 2 fumbles were absolutely not freddies fault and I'm glad we kept rolling with Chubb even with 2 consecutive fumbles. The flip pass in that situation was pretty stupid after 2 consecutive fumbles. Is that the head coaches fault? no. Is the offensive coordinator in part to blame. Yeah probably. It’s a shovel pass. A pass, two yards in front of the QB. It’s about as safe of a play as there is. 2 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: All that being said the NE game was in no way Kitchen's fault. Agreed, can’t spot the champs 17 at home. 2 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: The Seattle game, however, was probably freddies fault. It’s hard to kill the HC/OC when we put up 28 on that defense despite 3 picks and fumble. When the defense allows 30+, they take a large bit of the blame. 2 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: Instead of just running the ball, slowing tempo, and going into the half with at minimum a 23-12 lead, he "wants to get the ball back again" and runs a no huddle hurry up, an interception happens and instead we go into the half 20-18. I appreciate his desire to be aggressive, but yeah that was dumb as hell. 2 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: That game was in our hands and we just couldn't make smart decisions... Many of those decisions were by Baker though. Again, you can’t throw 3 picks and expect “coaching” or “play calling” to bail you out there. 2 minutes ago, CBrownsman said: I think its more Freddie than you are willing to admit, but CERTAINLY not as much as other people are willing to blame. I don’t blame Freddie as much as some because I think there’s a process to a lot of this. Young team, inexperienced QB/HC/OC, a team/franchise that doesn’t have a culture of winning and success to lean on .... is gonna have some growing pains, especially against good teams. Our schedule was absolutely brutal the first half of this year. The Titans game hurt and was a complete sht show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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