BDL Discussion Thread 2020

[Scoundrel]

6 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

[MD4L]

2 minutes ago, Counselor said:

You’re just mad both of these guys will be better than Watson.

They’ve got work to do if they want to reach DeShaun’s level.

[Scoundrel]

1 minute ago, MD4L said:

They’ve got work to do if they want to reach DeShaun’s level.

Oh they will get there and beyond 

[rackcs]

20 minutes ago, MD4L said:

Is Murray over Prescott that far fetched?

How is this even a question?

[MD4L]

Just now, rackcs said:

How is this even a question?

I would chose Dak over Kyler. However, Kyler’s skill set does make him a better fit for the RPO offenses. And Dak is definitely great, but the reason his yardage was absurdly high was because he had to will his team from behind in every performance except week 1 against the Rams.

[Blue]

6 minutes ago, MD4L said:

You listed Herbert and Burrow, so you really think low of Kyler. He’s not my ideal QB, but there’s a lot to like. Exceptional speed and he’s got an excellent arm. I would definitely place him among the top 16 and among the unquestionable NFL starter category.

 

Flacco was a great QB for a while but you aren’t going to justify starting him with the past few years of tape. Which brings me to point out

Kyler > J Goff

is almost lopsided. It is definitely Murray from a scheme perspective and then the production on the field. You would have me believing Arizona should look for a new starting QB if your 2nd year guy isn’t top 20.

Kyler Murray and the Arizona offense watched what Josh Allen and the Bills did to this Seattle defense two weeks ago and then completed two passes over twenty yards. His Hail Mary to Hopkins last week was his only pass completion over 15 yards that entire game. He is 19th in YPA, with one game this season under 4.5 YPA. An excellent arm doesn't matter much if you don't use it to push the ball downfield, and you don't really get to claim the supporting cast is too bad to do that with Larry Fitzgerald, Christian Kirk, and DeAndre Hopkins around.

If I were saying Flacco was still a better QB than Murray, you would have a point here. But I'm not, so you don't.

Goff is 39-17 since the Rams got rid of Jeff Fisher, with two playoff appearances (likely to be three this year), a Super Bowl appearance, and a road playoff win* in New Orleans. As it stands, there's a chance Goff is the top former No. 1 pick QB in the league right now, depending on what you think of poor Matt Stafford. But no, I guess one down year for him last season when the offense was a dumpster fire around him makes all of that irrelevant.

Murray probably has another year to prove he's the guy before Arizona needs to seriously consider replacing him. I don't think he's shown enough so far to consider him The Guy long-term, but as I said, I don't think he's bad either.

4 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

Hmm top ten run yea. I wouldn't put him top five 

Before u ask 

89 Montana 

86 sims 

92 Aikman 

09 Brees 

94 young 

Despite losing I'd even take the Matt Ryan super bowl year 

Flacco had 11 TDs, 1 total turnover (a fumble), and a QB rating low of 106.2 in those four games while throwing to middle-aged Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, and Dennis Pitta. He wasn't exactly playing against Swiss-cheese defenses either. There is no way that isn't one of the top five postseason performances by a quarterback ever.

[Ragnarok]

58 minutes ago, Blue said:

It absolutely is crazy.

Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers are in the top 3. You're not taking Murray over Brees, Lamar Jackson, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Dak Prescott, or Deshaun Watson. You gonna sit here and tell me Kyler Murray is a better player, right now, than any one of Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Josh Allen, Ryan Tannehill, Jimmy Garoppolo, even Joe Burrow?

That's not even bringing up guys like Jared Goff (who has started in a Super Bowl), Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, Teddy Bridgewater, and maybe Justin Herbert. Then you have players like Cam Newton and Carson Wentz who aren't having great years but have much better bodies of work than Murray. I wouldn't agree with it at all, but there's a path here where somebody could reasonably put Murray outside the top 20.

I might take Kyler over Lamar.  I think Kyler is a better passer already.

[rackcs]

3 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

I might take Kyler over Lamar.  I think Kyler is a better passer already.

Yikes

[MWil23]

I'll get back to you on Kyler when I've seen him play 35+ games. That threshold really seems to be a decent indicator:

See: Josh Allen, Elway, Brees, etc.

It's worth a read from a data perspective, even though I don't see 100% eye to eye with his conclusion(s):

http://www.footballperspective.com/how-long-does-it-take-great-quarterbacks-to-break-out/

[Blue]

12 minutes ago, rackcs said:

Yikes

big oofs

[Blue]

Just now, MWil23 said:

I'll get back to you on Kyler when I've seen him play 35+ games. That threshold really seems to be a decent indicator:

See: Josh Allen, Elway, Brees, etc.

It's worth a read from a data perspective, even though I don't see 100% eye to eye with his conclusion(s):

http://www.footballperspective.com/how-long-does-it-take-great-quarterbacks-to-break-out/

I mean, are we really sure Josh Allen is good yet

[MD4L]

17 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

I might take Kyler over Lamar.  I think Kyler is a better passer already.

So Lamar throwing 36 TDs last year didn’t happen? None of his production was garbage time.

[rackcs]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

I mean, are we really sure Josh Allen is good yet

I don't think he's proven himself elite yet but I definitely think he's a good QB at the very least

[MWil23]

Just now, Blue said:

I mean, are we really sure Josh Allen is good yet

I think it's safe to say that he's "good". I don't think it's safe to say that he's great/elite/an MVP contender.

Passing

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					38	37	22-15-0	689	1145	60.2	8034	51	4.5	28	2.4	372	75	7.0	6.8	11.7	211.4	86.1		86	566	6.07	5.87	7.0	8	11	17
2018	22	BUF	QB	17	12	11	5-6-0	169	320	52.8	2074	10	3.1	12	3.8	89	75	6.5	5.4	12.3	172.8	67.9	49.8	28	213	5.35	4.37	8.0	2	3	6
2019	23	BUF	QB	17	16	16	10-6-0	271	461	58.8	3089	20	4.3	9	2.0	146	53	6.7	6.7	11.4	193.1	85.3	47.9	38	237	5.72	5.71	7.6	4	5	11
2020	24	BUF	QB	17	10	10	7-3-0	249	364	68.4	2871	21	5.8	7	1.9	137	49	7.9	8.2	11.5	287.1	103.2	78.4	20	116	7.17	7.45	5.2	2	3

 

Looking just at the numbers, we can see marked progression with his completion percentage, TD to INT ratio, Rating/efficiency, and getting rid of the ball/taking less sacks. He's also drastically cut down on his fumbles.

There's enough there to say that he's "Good".

[MD4L]

27 minutes ago, Blue said:

Goff is 39-17 since the Rams got rid of Jeff Fisher, with two playoff appearances (likely to be three this year), a Super Bowl appearance, and a road playoff win* in New Orleans. As it stands, there's a chance Goff is the top former No. 1 pick QB in the league right now, depending on what you think of poor Matt Stafford. But no, I guess one down year for him last season when the offense was a dumpster fire around him makes all of that irrelevant

4 playoff appearances. 0 300 yard passing games. His signature playoff win is against the Saints in the controversial game. Goff also led the Rams that year to the second d performance in SB history with a team not scoring a TD. His first two years with Gurley was exciting but Goff is the textbook definition of the average QB in today’s NFL.