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The MMA Thread | UFC 267 Delivers!


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5 hours ago, JonStark said:

Islam is really good, but the hype around him is getting a little crazy. Khabib saying that he could finish Dustin and Oliveira right now. MMA twitter saying that he would beat any other lightweight on the roster. I don't see it.

I think Poirier, Oliveira, Gaethje, and probably Chandler would all beat him. 

I would like to see him against chandler or atleast hooker next

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I know Islam is getting this huge push but i would still like to see him get some legit wins v Top-10 opponents before thinking he’ll run thru the divisions best. 
Oliveira shouldn’t be taken lightly on the feet and probably has better standup

Im not betting against Poirier at all

Chandler and Gaethje are interesting. We’ve seen Khabib take Justin down easily. Curious what the leg kicks do to Islam. That would be fun. Not sure how easily Islam gets Chandler down but we know he is explosive early on but his gas tank is suspect

Either way I’d love to see it. FWIW i think he beats Ferguson 30-27 easily

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Maybe I'm forgetting an obvious fight, but I don't remember seeing anything over his career to me that suggests Islam's wrestling isn't so far ahead of the division that he wouldn't be a favorite.  

Keep in mind that Islam has faced an absolute murderer's row of wrestler's / grapplers in his career. In the UFC alone, Islam has faced:

Moises (Legit Black Belt)
Dober (Decent grappler)
Ramos (ADCC Frickin' Gold)
Tsarukyan (IDK his background but this dude is super strong grappler and their match was amazing)
Tibau (Legit Black Belt, Gave Khabib Fits)
Kajon Johnson (Black Belt from Tristar)
Nik Lentz (Vet, Lifetime Wrestler)
Chris Wade (Lifetime Wrestler)

And remember, he went 8-0 over this span, BY PRIMARLY WRESTLEF'N them. Some of the best grapplers in the LW division have been able to, AT BEST, nullify him by losing clear 10-9 rounds scrapping for their lives. His transitions and scrambles are so fast and he completely dominates position. His ground and pound is, admittedly, less aggressive and natural as Khabib's but he's still improving ffs and his control seems every bit as good as Khabib's when he was 21 fights into his career. 

Why am I supposed to believe he's NOT Khabib Jr. and clearly above everyone else in the division, especially when he's literally being coached by him? Because he hasn't fought a top 10? They won't even sign the contract lol. 

Do I think he could get caught by some of the strikers in the top 5? Possibly, especially when you consider he WAS caught by Martins in his second UFC fight. But I'm much more willing to bet my money that he's learned his lesson over the last 6 years training at AKA and will be more cautious as demonstrated over the last 8 fights. I can't think of anyone in the division that I would book as a solid favorite over Islam at this point.

Edited by Soggust
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Makhachev is going to be a problem in the lightweight division.  I agree with the assessment that he is ready now, but i like the idea of a steady increase in the talent he faces.

 

maybe dos anjos, then chandler or gaethje, then title fight. (oliviera or poirier)

 

None of those are layups, but he has the ability to win em all!

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5 hours ago, Soggust said:

I've seen this take a lot, but I'm curious what makes you think this. 

Seems to me his performance last night was pretty much flawless. Moises is NOT an easy guy to finish anyway, but especially on the ground. I'm not sure what the path to victory is for any of the 4 you mentioned is against Islam apart from hoping for a KO.

You can't say he would run through guys like Poirier and Oliveira when his best win so far is Moises. He's really good, but he just doesn't seem as dominant as Khabib to me. I honestly think the comparisons are only there because they are training partners. 

Oliveira has better standup and I would give him the edge on the ground right now. 
Poirier has much better standup and an above average ground game. I'm pretty sure anyone else on the planet taps to that Gilly except for Khabib. 
Gaethje has much better standup, although if he got taken down might be in trouble. 
Chandler has better standup and a good ground game.

All 4 of those guys would piece Islam up on the feet right now, and would have a decent to good shot at keeping the fight there. After those 4 though, I'm not sure I see anyone beating him. It's just too early to give him the best lightweight title until he dominates a higher ranked guy.

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1 hour ago, JonStark said:

You can't say he would run through guys like Poirier and Oliveira when his best win so far is Moises. He's really good, but he just doesn't seem as dominant as Khabib to me. I honestly think the comparisons are only there because they are training partners. 

Oliveira has better standup and I would give him the edge on the ground right now. 
Poirier has much better standup and an above average ground game. I'm pretty sure anyone else on the planet taps to that Gilly except for Khabib. 
Gaethje has much better standup, although if he got taken down might be in trouble. 
Chandler has better standup and a good ground game.

All 4 of those guys would piece Islam up on the feet right now, and would have a decent to good shot at keeping the fight there. After those 4 though, I'm not sure I see anyone beating him. It's just too early to give him the best lightweight title until he dominates a higher ranked guy.

I think every person above him (currently #9 as of typing this) is better in the standup. I also think everyone above him is probably better at striking than Khabib. I just don't think it matters as I think none of those four, including Oliveira, is even close to the wrestler Islam is.

If you compare where Islam is now to where Khabib was 21 fights in, I think they are actually pretty similar. Remember, Khabib was a decision machine for a while too and people complained about his lack of aggression. Like Khabib, I think that when Islam finally gets to fight more strikers, he will get a better opportunity to showcase his skills as they will be more apt to take chances and will be less proficient at stalemating the ground game. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Islam definitely needs some bigger wins but he will be a good problem to have at LW for a while. But how do you get him a fight against a top-ish tier guy if they wont take it?

I think you put Islam vs Dariush for the #1 Contender (after Poirier vs Olives).

I don't LOVE it because I think Gaethje gets screwed again, but maybe he can force the UFC's hand with a highlight KO of Chandler. 

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1 hour ago, Soggust said:

I think you put Islam vs Dariush for the #1 Contender (after Poirier vs Olives).

I don't LOVE it because I think Gaethje gets screwed again, but maybe he can force the UFC's hand with a highlight KO of Chandler. 

Islam/Dariush for a #1 contender sounds sucky. Islam beating 1 Top-10 guy and gets a title shot?. If they could book Chandler/Gaethje soon id be fine with if the winner of that fights Beneil for a #1 spot. I just think Islam should be more than 1 win away

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11 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Hooker Ferguson would be so much fun. Both of them need a win

It's pure negligence if the matchmakers don't make this fight. It makes so much sense right now, and I don't see it being anything other than a bloodbath.

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12 hours ago, Buckrock101 said:

It's pure negligence if the matchmakers don't make this fight. It makes so much sense right now, and I don't see it being anything other than a bloodbath.

100%, give Tony a striker that at least will be a banger of a fight and Hooker needs a win too

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23 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Islam/Dariush for a #1 contender sounds sucky. Islam beating 1 Top-10 guy and gets a title shot?. If they could book Chandler/Gaethje soon id be fine with if the winner of that fights Beneil for a #1 spot. I just think Islam should be more than 1 win away

I think Dariush might be the toughest fight in the division for Islam. It may not be the sexiest fight on paper, but it seems like the UFC agrees with me as the new rankings have #3 Dariush and #5 Islam.

I think UFC goes Islam/Dariush facing Poirier/Oliveira for the title and the Gaethje/Chandler winner fighting Conor in one last attempt to keep him in title hunt and get back to Poirier. If he loses, he does Diaz III and/or retires.

Just my opinion though

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5 minutes ago, Soggust said:

I think Dariush might be the toughest fight in the division for Islam. It may not be the sexiest fight on paper, but it seems like the UFC agrees with me as the new rankings have #3 Dariush and #5 Islam.

I think UFC goes Islam/Dariush facing Poirier/Oliveira for the title and the Gaethje/Chandler winner fighting Conor in one last attempt to keep him in title hunt and get back to Poirier. If he loses, he does Diaz III and/or retires.

Just my opinion though

Looking at the rankings really quickly its definitely unfortunate that Gaethje never fought since losing to Khabib because if he had a win at all, he should fight Dariush for the next shot after Dustin/Olives. I still think Islam needs to win 1 more fight before getting into a #1 contender spot. 

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